|
Post by pepperhead212 on May 11, 2014 21:27:18 GMT -5
I am totally enclosing the zucchini - a parthenocarpic variety, so it shouldn't need pollination - to hopefully prevent SVB from getting to them. If it works, I will do more next season, but I'm getting ahead. Here are the photos. s24.photobucket.com/user/pepperhead212/library/2014%20Earthbox?sort=6&page=1To give you an idea how big that Earthbox is, when I was measuring to see what I would need to cover this, Measuring from the ground to the top of those pipes, then over along the long side, then back down to the ground was 96". Measuring the same, but along the short top piece, was 82". So the 83" fabric would not have expanded enough, and I had to use about a 10' piece of the 118" roll. If it seems there is a lot of empty space at the top, then next time I may make the support shorter, and I can use the 83" roll I have. I will also be covering the pepper EB, with higher supports - about 54" (minus the sunken part). All of the varieties I am growing in that are prone to pepper maggots, so that has to be isolated, as well. I have 2 gal/hr. drip emitters in the watering holes (I never use any this fast in pots or elsewhere, but I figure this would be a good place to use them up) , and have a watering timer on them, doing it twice a day - I'll have to play around, to get the correct timing, w/o wasting water, but as always, when it gets hotter, it will change, and in pots, when the plants get larger, more water will be needed, so, again, I'll have to play around with it. I'll keep you informed of the progress of the zucchini. I have never been able to grow non-moschata squash, without SVBs showing up, often before I have gotten a single squash. So this is my last hope.
|
|
izzy
Pro Member
Posts: 347
Joined: July 2011
|
Post by izzy on May 11, 2014 21:45:25 GMT -5
Sure hopes it works for you. Do the SVB last all summer in your area, or only at the beginning of the season? In Texas, we have multiple generations for roughly 6 months. I was so desperate to grow maximas that I built an assemble-as-it-grows cage out of cheap furring strips and nylon(?)window screen. Afterwards, I was able to take the cage apart and stack the sections in the rafters in the garage.
|
|
|
Post by pepperhead212 on May 11, 2014 23:07:04 GMT -5
Yes, Izzy, they last all season here. One of the myths I debunked was that they disappear early, so if planted late, they would not appear. I planted some on or about 8-15, and they showed up in September, which I would not call early - must be multiple generations here, too!
I had SVB come up out of the ground when I tried covering some rows about 15 years after I had last tried growing squash, and I have nobody anywhere nearby that grows squash. So I have a feeling that SVB also live on some native plant - maybe a weed! - that is found in my area, much like the pepper maggot fly also lives on horsenettle. I haven't seen references to this type of thing with SVB, but it could be there.
|
|
|
Post by bestofour on May 12, 2014 10:15:41 GMT -5
do you hand pollinate?
|
|
|
Post by pepperhead212 on May 12, 2014 11:20:50 GMT -5
The parthenocarpic type do not need polinating...hopefully. They have a number of cucumber varieties like this, for greenhouse growing.
|
|
|
Post by bestofour on May 12, 2014 21:11:20 GMT -5
live and learn.
|
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
Joined: January 1970
|
Post by Deleted on May 30, 2014 21:50:44 GMT -5
Grasshoppers and squash beetles have been the bane of my gardens for the past few years. I've recently moved to a town that allows me to have chickens, so hopefully, I'll keep ahead of those pests. I'm unfamiliar with svbs. Will chickens keep those in check also?
|
|
|
Post by pepperhead212 on May 31, 2014 0:04:21 GMT -5
Welcome to the board! And no, chickens won't do much about SVBs, as they fly in, lay the eggs on the plant, and fly off, which is why not much works on them, unless it is some long acting insecticide that none of us wants to work with! Maybe, if you're lucky, you won't have them where you are! What happens is that the eggs hatch quickly, the larvae burrow into the stems, and decimate the plant tissue (the stems actually look like a bunch of fiber, with little left in between, after a really bad attack). Before I would get even one squash on most plants, they would wilt, come down with mildew, and I would pull them out of the ground and discard them in trash bags. Pepper maggots are another thing that are caused by insects flying in and laying eggs on the fruits, in this case, then the fruits are destroyed by the larvae. At least in this case they don't come out of the ground (at least here!) and covering keeps them in check.
Grasshoppers and cucumber beetles can also be kept off with lightweight fabric, though it does take a lot of fabric. I get two seasons of use from it, before it needs replacing.
|
|
|
Post by bestofour on May 31, 2014 6:51:17 GMT -5
Grasshoppers and squash beetles have been the bane of my gardens for the past few years. I've recently moved to a town that allows me to have chickens, so hopefully, I'll keep ahead of those pests. I'm unfamiliar with svbs. Will chickens keep those in check also? growmyown, I've had a time with squash bugs too. I read, that to control SVB, put a tiny ring of aluminum foil around the base of new plants pushing the foil into the soil a bit. The SVB likes to lay eggs at the base of the plant. I tried this last year and it worked sort of. It's hard to know if it was just a slow year for the SVB or if it really worked. I forgot to do it this year so we'll see.
|
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
Joined: January 1970
|
Post by Deleted on May 31, 2014 17:04:36 GMT -5
I'm sure aluminum foil is a good idea, but I don't understand how it would work. I'm growing my garden in containers this year since we've started moving already. No buyer for the house yet, so we can take our time. A friend said that wood ash is effective against squash bugs. I'll try that, and I'll be covering the plants soon also, since heat, grasshoppers and sbv bugs will still need to be dealt with. So far, all of my plants look beautiful. I have blossoms everywhere and some fruit setting. I'm new to this town. I've not seen sbv or any other serious pest yet, but I don't want to lose my garden because I wasn't cautious enough.
|
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
Joined: January 1970
|
Post by Deleted on May 31, 2014 17:15:56 GMT -5
I am totally enclosing the zucchini - a parthenocarpic variety, so it shouldn't need pollination - to hopefully prevent SVB from getting to them. If it works, I will do more next season, but I'm getting ahead. Here are the photos. s24.photobucket.com/user/pepperhead212/library/2014%20Earthbox?sort=6&page=1To give you an idea how big that Earthbox is, when I was measuring to see what I would need to cover this, Measuring from the ground to the top of those pipes, then over along the long side, then back down to the ground was 96". Measuring the same, but along the short top piece, was 82". So the 83" fabric would not have expanded enough, and I had to use about a 10' piece of the 118" roll. If it seems there is a lot of empty space at the top, then next time I may make the support shorter, and I can use the 83" roll I have. I will also be covering the pepper EB, with higher supports - about 54" (minus the sunken part). All of the varieties I am growing in that are prone to pepper maggots, so that has to be isolated, as well. I have 2 gal/hr. drip emitters in the watering holes (I never use any this fast in pots or elsewhere, but I figure this would be a good place to use them up) , and have a watering timer on them, doing it twice a day - I'll have to play around, to get the correct timing, w/o wasting water, but as always, when it gets hotter, it will change, and in pots, when the plants get larger, more water will be needed, so, again, I'll have to play around with it. I'll keep you informed of the progress of the zucchini. I have never been able to grow non-moschata squash, without SVBs showing up, often before I have gotten a single squash. So this is my last hope. How is your earthbox experiment doing? Is it effectively keeping your plants safe? I showed my hubby your pics and he promised to make something along that idea. With my zucchini and pumpkins in full bloom now, I'm starting to get nervous. He forgot to bring the garden cloth and our wood ash when he went to pick up another load.
|
|
|
Post by pepperhead212 on May 31, 2014 20:09:16 GMT -5
They seem to be doing well, but it's early yet. I opened the fabric back when I realized that there were some holes in a few of the leaves (I had already taken the photos, and was out doing my dirty work, otherwise I would have taken a photo then!), and I sprayed them with a solution of Surround, some foliar food, and some potassium bicarbonate, as a fungus prophylactic. I figured that whatever it was under there would keep off now, and there really wasn't much damage anyway. Aluminum foil is one of countless things I tried against SVBs, and it did not work for me. The only two things that made the plants last long enough that I could get a few squash from them were the radish greens planted around them like weeds, and spraying that Surround on them. The bugs must not have liked the feel of the surround, but the problem is that there is no way of keeping up with the growth of the plants, and there will be some untreated section somewhere that the bugs will find. Here is that photo of the covered zuke, showing through.
|
|
|
Post by bestofour on Jun 3, 2014 10:36:56 GMT -5
growmyown, from what I've read the SVB comes in at the stem at ground level. So covering that part of the stem with foil or a toilet paper roll keeps them out. I don't know if it really works but I'll try anything when it comes to those horrible pests. Let us know if the wood ash works.
|
|
|
Post by Laura_in_FL on Jun 3, 2014 17:37:57 GMT -5
Unfortunately my SVBs are not deterred by aluminum foil. They just bore holes farther up the stem and even on leaf stems.
|
|
|
Post by pepperhead212 on Jun 3, 2014 18:21:30 GMT -5
You're right, Laura, foil, nor TP rolls thwart SVBs, nor does wood ash - 3 of many things I have tried.
|
|
|
Post by pepperhead212 on Jun 8, 2014 17:31:34 GMT -5
I got my pepper EP covered today, to keep those pepper maggot flies out. I took photos of those, and one showing the zucchini through the fabric. Incredible growth in just one week! I can see some blossoms, but they are unopened, and all are male, at least what I could see through the fabric. Pepper EB before covering: After covering:
|
|
|
Post by Laura_in_FL on Jun 8, 2014 20:48:46 GMT -5
Nice. I am looking forward to seeing your results.
It sounds like it won't be long before you get some zukes!
|
|
|
Post by pepperhead212 on Jun 8, 2014 22:58:05 GMT -5
It's been almost exactly a month since I planted the seeds for the zukes, so it is about 2 weeks until first harvest, since most are 45-50 days. These will be the first summer squash I will have grown in this century!
|
|
|
Post by pepperhead212 on Jun 9, 2014 19:50:42 GMT -5
I think I have my first zuke! It's only about 2" x 1/2", but it has appeared since yesterday, when they were all just unopened flowers, from what I could see. It still looks unopened. I'll uncover it in the morning, before I go to work, and take a photo, this time not through fabric! LOL And I'll see if there are any others...I'm sure there are. If memory serves me, those things can grow so fast that they would sometimes be too small to harvest in the morning, but be too large when I got home from work! But then, it has been a long time...
|
|
|
Post by Laura_in_FL on Jun 10, 2014 9:34:09 GMT -5
It's time to start checking the plant every day for sure. Unless you want baseball bats.
|
|
|
Post by pepperhead212 on Jun 10, 2014 19:31:15 GMT -5
I got out there to take these photos just before the sky opened up! Here is the largest one - didn't grow much since last night, but it did get thicker: Here are some more starting on the other plant. I actually counted four, but only two are in the photo: And here is a photo showing the size of these things! Fortunately, the cover was not pushed off at all - the base was still tucked into the bungee cord all the way around. The only insects I found were ants, though I still sprayed a neem oil/potassium salt based substance all over the leaves, as a precautionary:
|
|
|
Post by Laura_in_FL on Jun 12, 2014 10:46:36 GMT -5
Looks like the zukes are enjoying the Earthbox. It might get interesting keeping the cover on as they grow - you have a lot of slack left in that cover, I hope!
|
|
|
Post by pepperhead212 on Jun 12, 2014 23:09:45 GMT -5
Strangely enough, the squash haven't grown much yet, though maybe it has something to do with lack of sunlight? I check them out every morning, but not much has happened.
And yes, I do have a lot of extra cover for both of the EBs. In fact, I have it bundled up under the bungee cords, and as the plants grew, I just pull some out a little.
|
|
|
Post by Laura_in_FL on Jun 14, 2014 8:41:37 GMT -5
Hmm...sitting there not growing is what happens when regular zukes & squash don't get pollinated. But your zukes are parthenocarpic, right?
If it was lack of sunlight, your plants would show it in the leaves and the growth rate, I think.
Hopefully they are just slow starting to grow. But if the fruits fail to develop, you can start hand-pollinating the new female blooms. That's a pain, but if you have the cover open every morning to check them anyway, maybe it won't seem like too much of an aggravation.
By the way, if you pick them before they go bad, you can eat unpollinated baby zukes - they are tender and delicious.
|
|
|
Post by pepperhead212 on Jun 14, 2014 20:59:54 GMT -5
I finally got some sun today, and no rain! Those zukes still haven't grown a lot; in fact, one of the smaller ones is larger than that first one! I hand pollinated the fruits on one plant, and left the others as is, to see what happens.
I had major problems with that cover staying on the pepper EB, due to really strong winds. So I tied some knots in the bungees, to tighten it, and the knots pressed against the fabric, holding it against the EB. So far, it seems to have worked...I'll find out tomorrow.
|
|
|
Post by pepperhead212 on Jun 17, 2014 0:09:13 GMT -5
It's two days later, and those zukes have barely grown! And I hand pollinated the ones on the right plant, but it doesn't seem to be making a difference in the growth of the zukes.
No signs of SVBs, however, and any squash I had planted out in the open would have come down with it by now. If these squash don't start growing like regular squash, I'll have to try another parthenocarpic variety, since the method is working, and the plants are growing well, just not the fruits.
|
|
|
Post by pepperhead212 on Jun 22, 2014 16:32:34 GMT -5
I finally harvested some zukes! Still not growing fast, however, as the largest of the 5 was only about 7". No difference at all between the hand pollinated and the rest. Maybe this picking will trigger the growth. Still looking great, with no bugs, or any signs of mildew (which mine always got toward the end, due to their weakness from the SVB).
|
|
elliemater
Pro Member
Posts: 226
Joined: June 2014
|
Post by elliemater on Jun 23, 2014 8:58:28 GMT -5
pepperhead212,izzy,bestofour,@growmyown,Laura_in_FL,elliemater
I have grown zukes under row cover and hoops to avoid SVB, three parthenocarpic varieties that really do great. Two problems. First, my bushes get too big for my tallest/widest hoops and fabric. They lift the fabric and in goes Mr. SVB. Second, by the time the plants are making babies, the humidity and heat here are high, raining some every day to every other day...and there is not enough air even under the lightest cover...the fruits mildew, mold and rot.
When I use row cover, I have to tuck it into the inner side of the boards in the raised beds, and really secure every bit of edge.
What I can do though is at least extend my harvest a bit longer by using the cover and taking it off when the plants get too big and/or the conditions for rot arrive. At least my plants will have had that much of a head start from Mr. SVB. So there is time to get a bit more vege from the harvest.
I don't have any parthenocarpic yellow squash, only zukes and cukes. Here is a picture of my fav parth zuke, it is the pale one:
At one time I injected the stems with Spinosad and that did help a great deal. But then I learned it is not good for the honeybees so I stopped. But....if one were going to grow under cover, using parth zukes and keeping bees out...maybe stem injections would help in addition to the cover (in case a SVB or squash bug creep in) and not harm the bees because they aren't getting to the blossoms? Then remove plant debris in a timely manner when they are done? I don't know. Is that a bad idea?
|
|
elliemater
Pro Member
Posts: 226
Joined: June 2014
|
Post by elliemater on Jun 23, 2014 9:27:19 GMT -5
Yes, Izzy, they last all season here. One of the myths I debunked was that they disappear early, so if planted late, they would not appear. I planted some on or about 8-15, and they showed up in September, which I would not call early - must be multiple generations here, too! I had SVB come up out of the ground when I tried covering some rows about 15 years after I had last tried growing squash, and I have nobody anywhere nearby that grows squash. So I have a feeling that SVB also live on some native plant - maybe a weed! - that is found in my area, much like the pepper maggot fly also lives on horsenettle. I haven't seen references to this type of thing with SVB, but it could be there. I was thinking about this. The SVB is a pest to not only squash and zukes, but also to pumpkins, winter squash, melons, and cucumbers. Do your neighbors grow any of these? Or do you grow them (other than zukes and summer squash)? The pupae overwinter at least an inch deep into the soil.
I was thinking that the moth adult may be feeding on a weed, but all I could implicate was Joe Pye weed. Yet I have seen it said that adult Sesiidae (clearwing) moths, such as the SVB moth, do not feed. Hmph.
|
|
|
Post by Laura_in_FL on Jun 23, 2014 10:41:52 GMT -5
Glad to hear that you got some zukes, finally. Hopefully fruit growth will speed up. Maybe slow fruit developnent is a quirk of the variety, or maybe fruit will grow faster when the plants are more mature?
Hopefully you have less heat/rain/humidity than Ellie and I do (she's ~3 hours west of me) and your plants will be able to stay healthy under the cover with your spray regimen.
|
|