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Post by brownrexx on Apr 18, 2024 9:19:42 GMT -5
Things are moving along. We have contracted a mover and our furniture will arrive in Florida on July 10. Obviously I will not be planting a garden right away. I have so much to learn about growing in Florida. Just last night my hubby asked me if corn grows in Florida and Google told me that in Central Florida, where we will live, that corn can be planted in January! Wow this seems so weird. We will be arriving in July and Laura_in_FL , told me that the summer is not good for growing gardens so I will be able to sit at my new pool and Google about gardening in Florida. Did I mention before that the property also has a small greenhouse with water? It's nothing fancy or big but I am excited to grow some plants in there during the cooler weather. Central Florida is not hot ALL of the time. Sometimes it even drops to 30° but I don't think that it stays cold for long. It will take me at least a year to figure out the weather! We have only ever lived in either PA or DE so this is exciting to learn all of the different weather patterns, plants, animals, birds and even the bugs. I know that they will be many bugs and I will not like a lot of them but there are also some really interesting ones too. I just googled Panama city FL where Laura_in_FL , lives and it is 266 miles North west from where I will be. We bought our house in a small rural town called Lecanto which is near Ocala. We sold our cabin in PA 2 weeks ago and I had to say goodbye to my garlic bed. It was growing nicely so I told the buyer what it was and when to harvest. She seemed happy.
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Post by pepperhead212 on Apr 18, 2024 10:22:12 GMT -5
Too bad you don't like hot peppers, brownrexx. Those (and many other tropical plants, you might want to look into) wouldn't mind the summer in central Florida! And have you looked into things you can do 2 seasons for? I know Laura does this with tomatoes (and probably others), and maybe you can do that with corn. Good luck with your moving, and good luck with your garden, once you get to that!
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Post by brownrexx on Apr 18, 2024 12:19:53 GMT -5
pepperhead212 ,my DH does like growing hot peppers but he only takes the occasional taste. I love bell peppers so maybe they will thrive in FL. We have one of those big screened enclosures over the pool and Laura_in_FL gave me the idea of growing some plants around the pool so that they will not be available to bugs. Maybe I will grow some potted peppers in there. The soil is VERY sandy as Laura_in_FL has mentioned so I am planning on a couple of raised beds. There are lots of horse farms in the area advertising free rotted horse manure and we have pick up trucks. DH likes okra and I am sure it won't mind the summer heat. Maybe beans too. We are both looking forward to Winter tomatoes that actually taste like tomatoes!
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Post by pepperhead212 on Apr 18, 2024 12:48:49 GMT -5
Yes, okra is another thing that is not bothered by heat! Beans, however, are not all heat resistant, and many would simply stop flowering when it would get in the low 90s, much like many tomatoes, then start up again, when a little cooler, but there you'll have a much longer wait. Rattlesnake pole bean is fairly heat resistant, and many of the long beans I've grown do best once it gets really hot. One was the Sweet White Long Bean, that produced more than any others last year. Like the red noodle and Thai long red, they stay firm, until they get very long, and start producing beans, while many of the green ones I tried hollow out early. Here's a photo from last year: A few beans, mostly the Sweet White long beans, definitely a keeper for next year. 9-4 by pepperhead212, on Flickr
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Post by octave1 on Apr 18, 2024 13:04:02 GMT -5
brownrexx, how wonderful things are moving along for you! If I lived in Florida I would grow a lot of fruits--rather than vegetables--that don't grow in my 5B zone: figs, Asian persimmons, grapefruits, tangerines, mangos, passion fruit, papaya... And yes, maybe a couple of tomato plants, some zucchini and cucumbers, but mostly delicious fruits!
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Post by Laura_in_FL on Apr 18, 2024 15:31:53 GMT -5
Long beans are a great suggestion, pepperhead212 . They are not fussy about soil and love the heat and humidity. They are an aphid magnet, and sometimes look bad because of it, but the aphids rarely do much harm. I think of them as a breeding ground for ladybugs. Actually, brownrexx , I like to plant regular beans (usually green beans, rather than shell or dried beans) ASAP after last frost, then sow long beans a month or two later, so they can take over producing "green beans" when the heat shuts down most of the regular beans. Don't plant too many - they will produce like mad and you'll be overrun! If you like eating shell or dried beans, try cowpeas***. Anytime after you have reliable 60-65+ degree nights, is good to plant them, and you can sow them up to probably early August where you'll be. Cowpeas LOVE heat, sun, and humidity, and are not fussy at all about soil. In fact cowpeas are very commonly used as a cover crop to improve the soil. They are one of the very few cover crops that allow you can get an edible harvest and ALSO improve the soil with the same crop. And yes, while black-eyed peas are a type of cowpea, they are actually (in my opinion) the worst-tasting cowpea. Even if you don't like black-eyed peas. I suggest you try some of the others, like White Acre (tiny peas are a pain to shell, but have a lovely delicate flavor), cream peas, or even the old standby Pinkeye Purple Hull. All of those varieties taste much better than black-eyed peas to me. (The old school southern way to serve them is with boiled okra, which is a bit of an acquired taste due to the slime. On the side you'd have cornbread and raw sliced tomatoes, preferably homegrown.) And if you decide you don't like cowpeas, at least you still improved your soil by growing them. ***Here in the Deep South cowpeas are called "field peas" or mostly just "peas." What you would call a "pea" in most of the country is referred to as "English peas" or sometimes "green peas" down here. So if you go into a restaurant that serves Southern food and order peas, don't be surprised if you get cowpeas, especially in the hot months. And if you are in a Caribbean restaurant and order peas, you'll probably get pigeon peas, a tropical legume.
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Post by brownrexx on Apr 18, 2024 19:25:57 GMT -5
octave1, I definitely have some fruits in mind. I am already planning a Meyer lemon tree and DH has 2 mango seedlings at home that he grew over the winter. I am not expecting mangoes from they anytime soon but he wants to plant them. This will be fun.
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Post by Laura_in_FL on Apr 19, 2024 14:13:21 GMT -5
I hate to be a downer brownrexx, but your mango trees are probably not going to take the occasional frosts and freezes you'll get where you are going. Small trees can die with any frost, and big trees take some damage with frost and die in hard freezes. I-4 (the interstate that runs east-west across Florida from Tampa through Orlando and up to Daytona Beach) is pretty much the northernmost extent for growing mango trees unprotected. Even a ways south of I-4 you can lose your mangoes to occasional freezes. One solution is to grow dwarf mango varieties in your greenhouse. You'll have to keep them pruned to control their size, because even "dwarf" mango trees can get pretty big; some varieties can be 18' unpruned. If you have the dwarf mangoes in pots, they will enjoy being wheeled out in the full sun and fresh air for the warm months. Or you can grow them in the ground under the greenhouse. Use shade cloth and ventilate the greenhouse as best you can to keep heat under control in the summer. You'll probably need to do that anyway to keep your greenhouse from being unbearably hot in the summer. Another option is to use your greenhouse to protect your mango seedlings and young mango trees for as long as you can. When they get too big to stay in the greenhouse any longer, plant them on the south side of the house, near a masonry wall if available. When freezes come, tent the whole mango tree and put some sort of heat under the tent - hanging old-style incandescent Christmas lights on the tree works well. Or put a big incandescent spotlight under the tree. For trees too big to tent, wrap the trunk as high as you can manage; all of the unwrapped growth may die, but if you save a few feet of the trunk, the tree will re-grow. Stack straw or pine straw bales around the trunk, or make a wire cage around the trunk and fill it with dry grass clippings, dry leaves, or dry wood chips to make a thick layer around the trunk. Then wrap everything in plastic to keep it dry and in place. Tents will have to be ventilated or removed in warm spells, but trunk wraps can stay in place all winter as long as they are wrapped well enough to keep the trunk dry; wet trunks can rot. Papayas are another fruit that won't survive your Central Florida winters. Once again you can get dwarf papaya varieties and grow them in your greenhouse. Or, since papayas fruit when very young, you can sow papaya seeds in summer, raise them in pots in your house or greenhouse over the winter, then plant them outside after all chance of frost, when the soil is very warm. If you kept them potted up and growing vigorously all winter, they should be big enough to ripen fruit in fall before frost kills them. (We can do that here in North Florida, if just barely, and your growing season is weeks longer down there.) The bigger and more vigorous a payapa plant is when it comes time to plant it out in spring, the better your chances of fruit. The nice thing about papayas is that they are super-easy to start from seed and are generally fairly "true" from seed, so you can just save seed from any papaya you like the flavor of, and keep saving seed year after year! The downside is that papaya plants can be male, female, or bisexual. Complicating this is that papaya trees can even change sex or show varying degrees of "maleness" or "femaleness." Weird! So it's generally recommended that you grow at two to three (or more) trees to have good odds of getting at least one female or bisexual tree that will fruit. The other fruits that octave1 mentioned can all be grown in your area without winter protection, though you will have to choose cold hardy citrus varieties. Meyer Lemon is an excellent choice for your area, by the way. But greening is a big problem for citrus. There are lots of other subtropical fruits that haven't been mentioned that could grow in your yard, including some that I can't quite grow here with my colder winters. It should be a lot of fun exploring the exotic fruits you can grow. And don't forget pineapple! Some pineapple varieties tolerate occasional light frosts unprotected, so you should be able to grow them in warmer microclimates like the south side of your house. However, you should be prepared to cover your outdoors pineapple plants when you get actual freezes. More frost-tender varieties can be grown in your greenhouse.
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Post by brownrexx on Apr 22, 2024 7:42:20 GMT -5
Laura_in_FL, Mangoes are definitely sounding like more trouble than they are worth! thanks for the info. This is like moving to another planet where I don't know what the environment is like! I do want a Meyer lemon for sure. I may leave the fruit growing to DH. I am really interested in growing some tropical plants in big pots around the pool as well as in the yard. There is a nursery right down the road and I know that certain varieties of palms can be grown in our area. I really want palm trees, not the big tall kind but the shorter ones that are less likely to snap in the wind that I know we will have.
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Post by Laura_in_FL on Apr 22, 2024 17:22:12 GMT -5
Yes, you can definitely grow several species of palms! There are actually a number of species that are reliably cold hardy where I live, meaning they will tolerate brief exposures to temperatures of 15F or even lower:
Washington Fan Palm - gets REALLY tall, up to 100'!; those are cheap and ubiquitous here Chinese Windmill Palm - also gets quite tall, also cheap and common Canary Island Date Palm - those eventually become tall, statuesque palms with massive trunks and wide-spreading fronds wide, but they are fairly slow-growing so it takes them decades to get that stature; but they are beautiful showcase, "WOW!" palms if you have the room to let them grow; they look fabulous with ferns planted under the canopy, too Sylvester Palm - gets 40-50' tall, fast grower, but pretty; some variation in appearance since they are seed-grown Mule Palm - 20-30ft after a few decades, pretty with usually delicate arching fronds (see below) Pindo Palm - 15-20ft, though I rarely see them over 15 ft; kind of thick-trunked; arching almost twisted bluish fronds that wrap around; larger specimens are expensive because they are slow growers; also called the Jelly Palm because its fruit, while unpalatable fresh, makes terrific jelly
Palms that are borderline hardy here but should be hardy for you down there include:
Roebellini, aka Pygmy Date Palm - usually those are under 10ft and they often grown in clusters; used as a "bush", often as a centerpiece in landscaping or near pools because they stay small Queen Palm - which I think are beautiful and graceful with delicate fronds, eventually can reach 50 ft
And there are probably more that I am not familiar with because they are not common up here.
The Mule Palm I mentioned above is a more recent introduction - it's a hybrid of the Pindo Palm and Queen Palm; it kind of looks like a Pindo with more delicate fronds; it also has some of the cold-hardiness of the Pindo, reliably surviving 15 degrees. Some people say it looks like a miniature coconut palm.
Real coconut palms are probably out, though. I am pretty sure they don't take much (any?) frost at all.
Most of these palms make fruit, generally kind of date-like fruit, and some species make a LOT of fruit, but usually only once per year. Except for Pindo, I am not sure if any of them make fruit worth eating. If you don't want the fruit mess, just cut off the bloom stalks when they are spent.
Palms also need occasional pruning to take off brown dead fronds to keep them looking nice; fronds generally will not drop on their own. The old fronds usually don't hurt anything if you leave them on the tree; people just don't like the way they look. However, on some species, cold-damaged fronds need to be removed for plant health. There will be plenty of landscape companies that will happily prune your palms, since there's lots of demand for that service. Old fronds can be very hard to cut, and most of the time you're working up on a ladder. So the average homeowner doesn't want to deal with it once the tree gets some height.
And with the really tall palm species, eventually the trees get too tall for even the pros to safely prune. At that point, most people cut them down and replace them with a smaller palm.
Palm-looking (but not true palm) plants that are cold hardy, shorter, and useful in achieving "tropical" landscaping include several species of cycads and palmettos. Palmettos are native plants or ornamental cultivars bred from the native plants. Native palmettos are green, but ornamental palmettos can be bluish or even silver in color. Cycads are not native, but many types do very well in Florida with almost little care.
And for a tropical look, don't forget bananas! There are a bunch of ornamental types and even several types that make delicious fruit that will love your new yard.
Nothing says "tropical" more than a yard full of bananas and palms, right?
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Post by Laura_in_FL on Apr 22, 2024 17:34:31 GMT -5
Oh, and you said your hubby is interested in growing fruit? Like I said, mangoes are going to be a challenge. But he can probably grow dragon fruit, star fruit, pineapple guavas, "tropical" guavas, avocadoes (cold hardy varieties), soursops, loquats, and other neat subtropical fruits, some of which I can't quiiiiiite grow up here because it's too cold.
Bear in mind that pineapple guavas and loquats make bigger and tastier fruit if you buy named cultivars that were bred for improved fruit quality, rather than just the seedling type sold for landscaping use.
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Post by brownrexx on Apr 22, 2024 20:20:06 GMT -5
Laura_in_FL, you are really getting me excited about growing some things other than tomatoes. I really like the idea of palms and we have some huge open spaces. I definitely like the idea of bananas too. I think that you may have fun too being my mentor!
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Post by rdback on Apr 23, 2024 8:59:39 GMT -5
brownrexx , I know I said I hate to see you leave us up here (and I still do), but now you and Laura_in_FL have me looking forward to your new adventure, lol. One thing that popped into my mind was plant toxicity. I don't know your plans regarding animals, but some plants are toxic to them. I think at least some palmettos are toxic to dogs, for example. Just something to consider. Looking forward to your gardening future!
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Post by mgulfcoastguy on Apr 23, 2024 12:30:54 GMT -5
I would wait to buy fruit trees until I got there, they will be grafted to the proper root stocks for the region that way. Some of the non bell sweet peppers like pimento and red Marconi might be a better choice. There should be local blueberry varieties that are productive as well as Brown Turkey figs, we load up on both in zone 8B. Then there are pomegranates. You might be able to grow muscadine grapes, sometimes known as scuppernong or bulloses(plant two different varieties for cross pollination). Apples are just too much trouble for a poor return. Okra is a good choice as are eggplants like Rosita . Rattlesnake is the best over all green bean. Cucumbers do alright but have a rather short season. Try South Ana winter squash, it's a cross between butternut and Seminole pumpkin and tastes great. South Ana keeps on growing roots along the vine so even when the original root dies so it "Travels" until it is killed. Just run the escapees over with a lawn mower to prune them back. southern exposure.com is a good seed source.
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Post by brownrexx on Apr 23, 2024 13:55:42 GMT -5
So many great suggestions. I was not thinking too much about gardening since there is so much to do with moving but now I am getting excited about the idea of planting new things. It will be fun to share my successes and failures with all of you. My DH really likes Okra and I know that Okra loves heat so I will be taking Little Lucy seeds with me. rdback, we have 2 indoor cats and the only other animals we are considering is chickens and I particularly want Guinea Hens. I actually heard some calling when we were there so I think that one of the neighbors may have some.
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Post by Laura_in_FL on Apr 23, 2024 14:18:34 GMT -5
mgulfcoastguy , I agree that bell peppers are the neediest and most fragile peppers. So in recent years I've been growing the big, long, thick-walled sweets as a replacement for some of the bells. But I still grow some bells. I think it's funny in a dark humor way whenever someone talks about how great Marconi peppers are, because they seem to be cursed for me. Either the seeds are the only ones that don't germinate, or if I buy transplants, they are the only peppers not to thrive. I am sure it's just happenstance/bad luck, and I know many other people in Florida rave about them so it's not a climate problem. But I have still given up on growing Marconis anyway! But back to bell peppers: One of the things that some of the universities in the Gulf coastal states have learned is that bell peppers do a lot better if they are put under ~30% shade cloth before the weather gets hot. Growing them under partial shade reduces water stress, increases yield, increases fruit size, and significantly increases the percentage of marketable (non-blemished) fruit. Two of the major reasons is that the shaded peppers are less likely to get sunscald and anthracnose. The peppers grew and produced under up to 80% shade cloth, but 30% provided the optimal harvest. Shading also extended the harvest season. An article about the Georgia study is here: newswire.caes.uga.edu/story/4416/longer-improved-pepper-production-with-shade-cloth.html, and there's a related UF IFAS article about using 50% shade cloth on bell peppers in Florida here: edis.ifas.ufl.edu/publication/hs368So I was thinking that if brownrexx grows bell peppers under her pool enclosure it will provide partial shade, just like shade cloth. I don't know the % shade her screen enclosure casts, but I am sure it's not too much, since lots of people grow thriving full sun tropical plants under screen enclosures, so I would bet it's not too much shade for the bells. It might be less shade than optimal, but it will still be better than nothing. But she'll probably have to buzz her flowers to get them to set fruit, since there won't be any bees under there, and the screen will slow down the wind so the flowers probably won't get enough wind movement for good pollination. That's not a big deal if she is only growing a few plants. And yes, after dealing with my poor wimpy peach tree, I am 100% in agreement about getting grafted trees from a reputable Florida nursery to ensure that they're grafted onto the right rootstock. Nov-Feb is the best time for planting trees in Florida anyway, so I too would recommend waiting until they move down here before buying trees for that reason, too. (You can plant container trees down here even in the summer, but you have to be very diligent about the watering and it can still be tough on some of them.) Waiting for fall will also give them time to settle in to their new home, walk their property, and take their time planning what they want to plant and where.
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Post by Laura_in_FL on Apr 23, 2024 14:38:27 GMT -5
brownrexx , I know I said I hate to see you leave us up here (and I still do), but now you and Laura_in_FL have me looking forward to your new adventure, lol. One thing that popped into my mind was plant toxicity. I don't know your plans regarding animals, but some plants are toxic to them. I think at least some palmettos are toxic to dogs, for example. Just something to consider. Looking forward to your gardening future! Actually, I think you have a case of mistaken identity. Saw Palmettos are not toxic to dogs or people, but Sago Palms are toxic if eaten. Sago Palms are misnamed, because they are not palms, but are actually cycads. Some (all?) of the other cycads commonly used in landscaping are toxic, too. Another tropical-looking plant that is commonly planted down here but is even more dangerous to dogs and people is Oleander. Both pets and young children have died from eating Oleander; all parts of the plant are quite toxic if ingested. Also, although oleanders are really pretty and bloom all summer long, they don't really provide food for pollinators. They tease the bees by looking and smelling nice, but don't provide much nectar. So bees usually learn pretty quickly to ignore them. That's good when you think about it - since the bees don't like oleander flowers, we don't have to worry about toxic oleander honey!
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Post by rdback on Apr 24, 2024 10:12:51 GMT -5
...I think you have a case of mistaken identity. LOL, it wouldn't be the first time. And, I shouldn't have relied on my memory. OLEANDER! That is what I was thinking of.
Thanks for the correction.
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Post by brownrexx on Apr 24, 2024 11:55:57 GMT -5
brownrexx , I know I said I hate to see you leave us up here (and I still do), but now you and Laura_in_FL have me looking forward to your new adventure, lol. It really is going to be an adventure. There are so many things I need to learn about Florida. Because of the delay caused by getting my knee replacement in PA, we will be arriving in FL in the hottest part of the year (July) but that's OK because I figure that if we see the worst first, we will have the best weather to look forward to. The hot, humid weather will also give me time to get my new house organized and think about the Fall / winter gardening season. I am a total newbee with southern gardening but that's a big part of the fun for me.
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Post by mgulfcoastguy on Apr 24, 2024 13:28:16 GMT -5
The coastal weather is different from the general Deep South weather. I used to have a wheel printed in the Mobile Alabama newspaper that showed the correct days to plant and harvest each type of crop. For instance early bearing tomatoes are planted as soon as it now longer frosts in the spring and harvested by the end of June. The same type of tomatoes are planted in the end of summer for fall harvest. Cherry tomatoes might make it though the summer but the big beefsteaks etc aren't for the local climate. I would definitely not bother with Sugar snap peas or snow peas at all. English peas are possible but the juice isn't worth the squeeze. Lettuce is iffy and short seasoned if it makes but collards and kale can do well. Onions , only sweet onions like Vidalia and some Texas something or another do okay but spring or bunching onions do well. Basically the middle of the summer to end of September is a great time to vacation in the Appalachians or Rockys . Oh guinea hens are very loud and neither they nor their eggs are good to eat. They do cut down on ticks though and are good watch dogs. Someone local can cue you in on what type of chickens are appropriate.
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Post by Laura_in_FL on Apr 25, 2024 18:36:08 GMT -5
Yep. We have spring gardens (planted ASAP in the spring) and fall gardens, but summer generally is lousy for gardening. Only a few veggies really thrive between July and September. But where she is going, she will have fewer, lighter frosts and in most years she won't have any hard freezes like we get up here in Panama City and you got in Mobile. So she'll have more flexibility in her fall and winter gardens than we do. So, in most years she will probably be able to grow peas all winter, making them worthwhile. Unlike us up here, where we have a very short spring season for peas, and fall-planted peas are even more iffy because they start producing about the time we get hard frosts. She'll also be able to grow lettuce all winter without worrying about hard freezes taking it out. And yeah - I completely agree that late June or July is a good time to (mostly) take a break from gardening until September. She's gonna have a pool, so she can hang out in the pool when she's not traveling to cooler places. But the compensation is that her fall and winter gardening should be even better than here. With the warmer, shorter winters, she will also be able grow some cool subtropical fruits and crops that I can't quiiiiiiite grow up here. As to chickens, I am counting on her to figure chicken-keeping out first. Then when I finally get my new house built, I can ask her for chicken advice.
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