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Post by Laura_in_FL on Apr 2, 2018 9:19:37 GMT -5
I haven't been able to find any reviews on this particular product, daylilydude . Nor did the listing I found on the Walmart website show the ingredients. It did say that it's OMRI listed. My guess is that it will be fine, but it may take a little more fertilizer per SIP because of the relatively low N-P-K numbers. For synthetic fertilizers with N-P-K analyses between 7-7-7 and 10-10-10, I use about a cup for the fertilizer band in a 5 gallon bucket-based SIP. Since you're using an organic with lower N-P-K numbers, you may want to use a generous cup full, especially if you're planting heavy feeders. If your plants seem to need another feeding before the season is over, you can always supplement the fertilizer band mid season. This is a lot easier if your lids are designed so they can be lifted a few inches without damaging your plants. It looks like the lids on your round buckets would work fine; your picture didn't show the lids or cover you're using for the square buckets.
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Post by daylilydude on Apr 3, 2018 11:27:19 GMT -5
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Post by Laura_in_FL on Apr 3, 2018 13:28:16 GMT -5
Okay, that seems pretty straightforward. I don't see anything in there that would be harmful.
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Post by daylilydude on Apr 3, 2018 13:36:14 GMT -5
Okay now the lime...I got the pellitized lime and I mixed in about a hand full to each bucket... does that seem right?
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Post by Laura_in_FL on Apr 4, 2018 9:04:47 GMT -5
That depends on the size of your hands! Seriously, a "hand full" is really different between different folks. I always measure. (Some folks do it by weight.)
I would use a cup for a new 5 gallon bucket-size planter. The lime is especially important for plants that are susceptible subject to BER such as tomatoes and peppers.
I use half as much when replanting a container that I limed previously - the used soil already has a fair amount of lime in it. Even if I replant the same SIP multiple times per year, I only add lime once a year. If you don't replace at least 25% of the soil per year, you may want to use a little less lime during replants, so you don't drive the pH too high over time.
Skip the lime altogether if you're growing anything that likes strongly acid soil, of course. (Such as blueberries.)
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Post by pepperhead212 on Apr 17, 2018 14:06:52 GMT -5
I just can't help myself. I said that I wasn't going to build any more of these, but I found two planters, and couldn't resist! There are some planters I originally got from GardensAlive, back when they had some good deals, and sold a small hydroponics setup. Problem was, this was a standard planter, about 9 1/2 gal level with the top, with a plug in the bottom (so people could use the planter indoors, if desired), and it leaked! So they sent me another one, didn't even want the other one back, and the new one leaked! They eventually gave me my money back, and later on, dropped the item, so everyone must have had the problem! I found out that there is pretty much no glue at all that seals with polypropylene, and found out when I researched it online, from some guy who worked with it in a factory for years that the way to do it is to melt it! This is how I sealed both of them, and later, got larger tubs, so those have been sitting empty for years, waiting for me to do this with them! This only took about 2 1/2 hrs in my workshop yesterday, and the second one will be even faster, as I cut out the shelves for both. It holds a little over 1 cu ft of mix, with just under 2 gal of water in the reservoir. I would have liked a little more in the reservoir, but the little freezer containers were all I had to work with for supports and wicking columns. The planter: DSCF0543 by pepperhead212, on Flickr The shelf, with supports, shown from the bottom: DSCF0545 by pepperhead212, on Flickr The finished planter: DSCF0546 by pepperhead212, on Flickr Update - just finished the second shelf. Only took about 70 min., though I haven't even started the cleanup! lol
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caesg
Pro Member
Posts: 152
Zone:: 5b
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Post by caesg on Apr 28, 2018 21:32:21 GMT -5
tl;dr = "What sip-friendly edibles do you particularly appreciate having by the back door for cooking purposes?"
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Many thanks to pepper212 for referring me to the njt forum. I'm about halfway through the sip thread here and loving reading about everyone's projects. (You're newest box looks great, pepper212! Good to know what I'm getting myself into with all this "promised myself I wouldn't build another one of these." 😜)
I have four different gardening locations:
(1) The first is a 4×4 weed-ridden raised bed behind the quadplex where I live. Neighbors & landlord have okayed planting. Due to occasional doggy-use as a potty, I've designated this the flowerbed.
(2) The second is the 6×12 graveled space between the detached garage and the fenceline. Landlord has given me permission to place containers here. SIPs will go here, somehow situated to evade doggy attempts at watering.
(3) 15 minutes away is a permaculture food forest where I chip in manual labor in exchange for berries, stone fruit, and other perennials.
(4) 5 minutes away, I will soon have a designated in-ground or raised bed plot at a community garden.
I need to decide what I will grow at home in SIPs and what I'll grow in ground a little ways away. While the community plot is "only five minutes away" that's by car, which isn't always available. So, really, a 20 minute bike ride. I probably won't visit daily.
At the moment, I'm thinking storage crops (onions, carrots, beets, rutabaga, winter squash, etc) at the community garden. One thing that jumps out as I write that is if my plot is in ground, our local soil is heavy clay, which can be hard on carrots.
For the backyard sips, I imagine focusing on ingredients that I prefer to have at hand and use a tiny bit at a time, often without planning: cherry tomatoes, leafy greens, berries, herbs.
Questions: What gaps or holes do you see in how I'm envisioning this? For your cooking and gardening styles, what items might you prioritize for the "just outside the back door" gravel/sip space? Also,potentially, plants that can turn quickly and thus need a little more attention?
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Post by pepperhead212 on Apr 28, 2018 22:17:06 GMT -5
Welcome to the forum! I'm glad you like it, and you can see how much more active it is.
For the 4 jr Earthboxes I have up on my deck, I grow some of my herbs and lettuce - things I like to have close by. Too bad I can't set up a trellis, for tomatoes, but I can't have everything nearby!
The one thing that you should know about the ones that you are thinking of setting up away from home is that SIPs dry out FAST, as do any potted plants in the summer. So unless you have access to somewhere that you could set up a timer, to water while you aren't there, these, or any container planting, may not be your best option. For example, just two tomatoes, once they get large, and it gets hot out, need watered twice a day in the regular EB - the first year I found out that it was dried up if I filled the reservoir just once. And 3 cukes in an EB dried out even filling every 12 hours, so I had to set it for every 8 hours! So these I put in the home-made ones, with deeper reservoirs, and 12 hour timing.
This is why some people give up on these things, and you find deals on EBs frequently, like the one you got! Hand watering is not fun, esp. with a lot of them!
You don't need those automatic watering system they sell for these things. Just a drip emitter in the watering hole works - on a timer, as I noted.
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Post by Laura_in_FL on Apr 29, 2018 12:27:38 GMT -5
Dave is not kidding about the watering! Eggplants also need frequent watering when grown in a SIP, especially if you have two plants sharing a box. But tomatoes and cucumbers are the worst. If you won't be home to check on these plants at last once during the mid-day or early afternoon, I would definitely set up irrigation on a timer like Dave mentioned. Other than having the thirstiest plants where you can monitor their water levels, it's all about what you want to have close to the kitchen for impromptu use. For me the top 3 veggies would be herbs, lettuce/greens for salads, and tomatoes. (But for me this is a hypothetical, since everything is in my suburban backyard and I can get to anything quickly.) As to carrots, you're right about clay soil. But full-length carrots really only work well if you have an extra-deep SIP, and carrots don't really need to be pampered in a SIP anyway. On the other hand, you can grow a lot of carrots in a small but deep raised bed or even a half-barrel. So if expense or labor prevents you from filling your community plot with raised beds, maybe you can put in a raised bed for the carrots. Or mix a half-barrel in with your SIPs. A half-barrel is another good option for herbs. Herbs grow GREAT in SIPs, but they don't really need to be pampered that way. Plus some of them develop huge root systems that grow through the grate and into the reservoir, and are a hassle to clear out. On the other hand, if you want a parsley plant you can barely wrap your arms around or basil taller than you are, a SIP is the way to go. On the other hand, I love growing lettuce in SIPs. It always grows great and it's easy to clean the planter out when it's done.
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caesg
Pro Member
Posts: 152
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Post by caesg on Apr 29, 2018 13:59:35 GMT -5
Thank you pepperhead212 and Laura_in_FL!
I really appreciate the feedback about how quickly sips dry out. The marketing tends to be "You only have to water once a week!" So, the lived experience feedback that they still need to be watered twice a day, similar to a hanging flower basket, is super helpful.
For irrigation of the sips, I don't have an outdoor water spigot. I wonder if I could work up a system where I attach one end of a hose to the kitchen sink (with an adapter) and run the hose through the entryway door and out to an elevated rain barrel. The rain barrel could have a drip emitter on a timer and gravity feed the sips. So, instead of hand watering, I would run this hose out and refill the 55 gallon barrel every day or two.
Regarding what to grow in ground at the community plot vs what to grow in backyard sips for impromptu use... It sounds like I'll grow eggplants in ground, thank you for that tip. It looks like there's some division on herbs. Pepperhead212, what herbs do you like to grow on your deck? Laura_in_FL, what herbs have you found particularly onerous in regards to their mucking up the grate? I've got to say, basil taller than I am *does* sounds kinda fun... 😄
Thank you! It's fun dreaming up how I'm going to put this all together, and I appreciate the insights from experienced sip gardeners!
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Post by Laura_in_FL on Apr 29, 2018 15:31:56 GMT -5
Well, to be fair, if you're growing something like beans or lettuce in a SIP, you do only have to water once a week. It's just certain plants that get BIG (especially if they have big leaves and/or big juicy fruits) need a LOT of water. Your rain barrel and drip emitter idea sounds like a great one, though. I grow eggplants in SIPs because I have a horrific time with nematodes. They just need to be watered a lot. And cleaning the roots out can be challenging. If you can grow eggplants well in the ground, then that's good. Before I talk about getting roots out, your climate matters. (I have no idea where you live.) If you have a real winter with lots of freeze and thaw cycles, you might not have nearly as much trouble getting roots out if you wait to clean the boxes until spring. Before the first freeze, drain and remove the irrigation system, cut the plants down, tip most of the water out of the box, and cover the box in plastic to keep rain and snow melt out. By spring, most plants' root systems will have decayed a lot; small roots will be largely gone and big roots should pull out pretty easily. You can break up any fine roots that remain as you mix in your new dolomite. But I live in N. Florida, with short, mild winters. The plants that have soft or hairlike roots are usually easy to deal with, but thick or woody roots will still be there in spring. Also, I can grow year-round so I use many of my boxes in the winter. That means I often don't have time to wait for roots to decay before prepping my boxes for the next crop. To be honest, I haven't grown that many different herbs in my Earthboxes because most of my boxes are filled with tomatoes and peppers! I usually grow my herbs in raised beds. But here's my experience with a few more I have grown: Basil: Gets HUGE, and roots get down through the grate. The main tap root gets woody and hard like a tree root. I wasn't able to pull or dig out the roots of large basil plants with a trowel. I had to use a hori hori knife to cut them out. And basil roots don't decay fast enough to be gone after my winter (I tried). But at least the worst of its roots are in a fairly narrow vertical shaft; it doesn't form solid mats through the whole box. Chives: I knew it would make a strong, dense root mat, so I transplanted the plant to a raised bed before it got very big. Cilantro: Pulls easily a few weeks after the seeds mature; the roots break down fast in hot soil. Creeping Thyme: The worst herb I had to get out of an EB so far. I had planted it on accident. My youngest son brought a seedling home from school just labeled "thyme." Eventually I realized it was the creeping type and I learned that creeping thyme smells nice but isn't nearly as tasty. But I didn't know how bad the roots would be. It didn't muck up the grate but filled nearly the entire box with an absolutely solid mat of fine roots. But I think if you fully killed the plant in fall and let the roots decay over winter it wouldn't be a problem, since the roots are mostly fine and hairlike. (That didn't work for me, since creeping thyme is hardy here and actually grows happily all through a Florida winter.) Parsley: Rough to get out. Big tap root + big root mats. I ended up cutting out BIG cones of the potting mix under each plant with the hori hori knife. This was before the seeds matured; it might be easier if I had left the plants there until they died back after maturing seeds. But I needed the box for tomatoes! Summer Savory: Crowded/shaded out by the creeping thyme before it got big enough to develop a big root system. I never tried either rosemary or sage in a SIP since I know they need to dry out from time to time. Actually, I can't think of any other herbs that I have grown in a SIP. Like I said, I grow them mostly in raised beds. Veggies that I don't recommend growing in a SIP unless you want to just dump out all of the potting mix when they are done: okra and corn. Both made solid mats of BIG roots through the grate and all the way into the reservoir. Of course, where I live we have a long, hot summer that okra loves - it practically grows into trees anyway. If you're farther north where okra doesn't get huge, the okra roots might not be a problem.
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Post by pepperhead212 on Apr 29, 2018 17:21:30 GMT -5
caesg Good idea for a rain barrel for the watering. If you do this, use non-pressure compentating emitters for this, as the pressure will be low. And, with this same thought, I would get the ones with the highest output, as they will offer less resistance, and be less likely to clog (you always want to have a filter in the line, but things can still get in the lines), with a larger orifice. It will take some experimenting to figure out how long it will take to fill the reservoir, as the pressure in the rain barrel goes down as the level goes down. And to see how deep the water is in the reservoir, I use a bamboo stake as a "dip-stick". Early in the season I don't have to fill nearly as often, due to smaller plants and cooler weather. As for those herbs, I like to have parsley, basil, Thai basil, and chives close by. Last season I grew rao ram and red epazote in those on the deck, and they got HUGE! As Laura noted, some get too large, and fill the box up with roots. Flat leaf parlsey is prone to this, but curly parsley is OK for me. I got a variety of flat leaf this year grown for pots, so I'll see if that works. And Serrata basil is one that grows well in pots and SIPs, without getting rootbound, and is a short, bushy basil, with great flavor. Siam Queen Thai basil is also a small plant, which does well in pots and SIPs. Chives have had a tendency to get rootbound in regular pots, but did not get at all rootbound in the jr EB last summer. It seems that some things seem to grow roots "as needed", and don't grow a huge amount when water is constantly available, as in SIPs or hydroponics. Others, like the flat leaf parsley, just keep growing more and more roots!
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Post by Laura_in_FL on Apr 30, 2018 9:27:17 GMT -5
Yes, it was flat leaf parsley that gave me the trouble. Pain though it was to get out of the box, I have to say that I have never seen parsley plants so large, lush, and healthy!
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caesg
Pro Member
Posts: 152
Zone:: 5b
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Post by caesg on Apr 30, 2018 12:37:21 GMT -5
Hrmmm... Thank you for all the feedback! Now I've got to get up and get today's "Must Do" items knocked off so I can goof around and plan my sip garden! Huzzah! 🎉
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Post by pepperhead212 on Apr 30, 2018 23:17:00 GMT -5
Today I finished doing something that I started earlier last week (I should have done them all at once, I don't know why I didn't ). That was putting those little chunks of mosquito dunks in the rest of the SIPs. I even put them in the 6 EBs I haven't topped off yet for the peppers, just so I'd know that they had all been done. Tomorrow, the tomatoes go in! Plus some oddball vegetables: Bitter melon, and 2 varieties of bottle gourds; the latter I am growing in hopes that it will NOT attract SVBs, and that I can use them undersized, in place of summer squash.
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caesg
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Post by caesg on May 11, 2018 0:44:09 GMT -5
A few SIP questions:
I added some plain Jane miracle grow fertilizer last Monday. I'm pretty sure I'm supposed to use some specialized stuff?
I just filled the box with what potting mix I had, which filled the box about half full. Problems to expect?
The medium seems awfully wet. (Possibly due to insufficient filling with medium!) I even noticed some green fuzzy stuff, moss maybe, forming. Thoughts?
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Post by Laura_in_FL on May 11, 2018 8:19:14 GMT -5
If the medium is too wet, it may be that you used the wrong type of potting mix. The wrong mix might not wick at all, or it might stay too wet, as you're seeing in your SIP. Either way will kill your plants. You need a peat moss based mix (70%-80% peat moss) with no sand, rocks, compost or manure. See here: earthbox.com/approved-for-earthbox for information on what type of potting mix to use. If you scroll down, that page also tells you what kind of dolomite and fertilizers to use, too. You'll use the same materials in your homemade SIP; just adjust the quantities based on the soil volume in your SIP. Last, go to this page: earthbox.com/instructions and click on "The Original gardening system instruction manual." It will download a .pdf file with lots of drawings showing how to properly fill an Earthbox, set up the fertilizer band, install the cover, and plant. I know you have a homemade SIP rather than an Earthbox, but the principles still apply. Note: If you make a fertilizer band you MUST have a plastic cover that completely covers the fertilizer band. Rainwater passing through the fertilizer band will leach the fertilizer out of the band and create an area of concentrated fertilizer under the band that can kill your plants. If you use organic fertilizers ONLY, you can mix the fertilizer throughout the entire container, and then technically you can get away without using a plastic cover. BUT, the plastic cover prevents weeds and greatly reduces evaporation. In hot, sunny conditions with no cover, the wicking sometimes can't completely keep up with evaporation and the top few inches of soil will dry out. That dry upper layer is hard on young or shallow-rooted plants. And a plastic cover can be as easy as draping a garbage bag over your SIP and using a putty knife to tuck it in on all sides. It may seem complicated right now, but it really isn't. Setting up a SIP quickly becomes second nature, and once properly set up and fertilized, they require very little maintenance other than watering.
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Post by daylilydude on May 12, 2018 12:38:34 GMT -5
Just to put a little bug in y'alls ear... the wife bought me another "City Picker" planter this morning and Lowe's has them on a new lower price right now... $19.98 City Picker Planter ... Lowes!
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Post by pepperhead212 on May 12, 2018 13:00:34 GMT -5
Great daylilydude, now what are you planting in this one?
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Post by daylilydude on May 12, 2018 13:12:04 GMT -5
Well pepperhead212, I have 3 habanada pepper seedlings from the seeds you sent me (Thank you!) so I thought they are good candidates to go into it... Oh and to let you know I was emptying some old pots and the one that had the black pearl pepper seeds in it that didn't do anything... well it had 3 seeds that sprouted ... 2 look like they may make it, so now i'ma make some 4.5 gallon sip's for those.
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Post by Laura_in_FL on May 12, 2018 22:01:03 GMT -5
Nice, daylilydude! Grats on the new planter, SIPs, and pepper seedlings. I'd love to see some pics of how your garden is going, when you have a chance. It sounds great!
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Post by pepperhead212 on May 12, 2018 23:01:12 GMT -5
Get this, daylilydude - I let those seeds and excess seedlings dry out in that tray, over the heat, then remoistened them, to see if that would germinate any of them, and one of the black pearls came up in 2 days! That's like what happened with Maui purple, when I dumped the vermiculite in a bag in the shed, where it dried out, and got HOT all summer, and they germinated in the fall, when I used the vermiculite. No others have come up, yet.
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Post by Laura_in_FL on May 13, 2018 10:22:56 GMT -5
Interesting. I wonder if this an adaptation to the monsoon climate in parts of the Southwest? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_Monsoon In those regions they get dry heat early in the summer - May and June. Between mid-July and September summer they get the monsoon thunderstorms. Monsoon season would probably be the ideal time of year for seedlings to get established in areas that have frost-free winters, or even mild winters with only a few light frosts. (Even here in North Florida if I leave pepper plants in their pots, if I have a mild winter with a few frosts and no hard freezes, some pepper plants some will regrow from the roots or from the stem near ground level. I would bet that people can overwinter peppers outside in most years in places with winters that are just a little milder than mine.)
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caesg
Pro Member
Posts: 152
Zone:: 5b
Favorite Vegetable:: Butternut Squash
Joined: April 2018
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Post by caesg on May 13, 2018 10:40:28 GMT -5
😭 A cursory internet search suggests that coir doesn't wick well/at all. I try to avoid using peat. If I don't want to use peat, am I pretty much limited to traditional container gardening?
Coir is the only peat-substitute that I'm aware of. From y'all's time on the old EarthBox forums, did anyone ever stumble across a peat substitute that was SIP friendly?
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Post by Laura_in_FL on May 13, 2018 10:47:17 GMT -5
None that I am aware of. Maybe pepperhead212 knows more than I on that topic?
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Post by pepperhead212 on May 13, 2018 16:23:04 GMT -5
From what I remember, coir does wick well, but decomposes in 3 or 4 years, to where it won't wick - like putting compost in the mix. (I use it in hydroponics, and it definitely wicks well there.) In the beginning, I made a few buckets with coir, and they worked fine for 2 years. It looked like they were ok for the 3rd season, but I ended up dumping it into a new herb bed I made up, and filling those with Promix.
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Post by daylilydude on May 13, 2018 18:15:29 GMT -5
caesg, is there a reason you won't use peat?
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Post by pepperhead212 on May 13, 2018 21:47:30 GMT -5
caesg, is there a reason you won't use peat? That's an environmental thing, daylilydude, since they "mine" peat, and it is not a sustainable resource, since it takes thousands of years to form. If I can use coir instead, I prefer to, but with SIPs, nothing else works as well. And even if we stopped using all peat in gardening, that would be a minute amount - far more is burned as fuel, like coal, throughout the world, which is rarely heard about.
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caesg
Pro Member
Posts: 152
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Post by caesg on May 14, 2018 21:18:29 GMT -5
@daylilydude. As suggested by pepperhead212, my preference is based on utilization of a renewable vs a nonrenewable resource. On a day when I have a desktop computer to compose at (instead of this little mobile device) I'll open a new or revive an old thread to navigate the topic further. I agree with everything pepperhead212 writes.
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caesg
Pro Member
Posts: 152
Zone:: 5b
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Post by caesg on May 14, 2018 21:25:46 GMT -5
From what I remember, coir does wick well, but decomposes in 3 or 4 years, to where it won't wick - like putting compost in the mix. Thanks for the insights, pepperhead212! I am remembering, now, that there are a couple of sticky reasons that I've shied away from container gardening in the past. I think I'll focus on my two in-ground options for the moment, and circle back to container gardening in a couple weeks. In the meantime, I'll tend my one EarthBox as-is.
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