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Post by ladymarmalade on Mar 4, 2018 14:39:23 GMT -5
Do you have some? What do you do to encourage fruiting and discourage pests and disease?
I am a big fan of organic growing, BUT were I to have apple trees, I want them so we can enjoy the fruit. And by enjoy the fruit, I don't mean having to make applesauce because the apples are so riddled with worm holes or scabs. So I am not totally opposed to the idea of sprays and careful tending.
I am in the information gathering stage, but let's assume these are mature dwarf trees that are already producing. I already have a tree man who knows the proper pruning schedule and how to actually care for the trees themselves. But getting the trees to produce bushels of fruit...?
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Post by farmerjack41 on Mar 4, 2018 16:17:23 GMT -5
Living in the apple capital of the country, I only have one apple tree. As the apples start growing, I tie a sack made out of old ladies nylons around the apple. Making it large enough for the apple to grow. In some orchards, the customers (Japan, etc.) pay to have the apples enclosed in paper bags. Has to be quite a chore when the orchards are large. (this is in the organic orchards) To try to keep the birds out, I hang old cds on a long string, they move around and the shiny look seems to keep the birds out. Do the same thing over the rows of strawberries.
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Post by ladymarmalade on Mar 4, 2018 17:04:45 GMT -5
Living in the apple capital of the country, I only have one apple tree. As the apples start growing, I tie a sack made out of old ladies nylons around the apple. Making it large enough for the apple to grow. In some orchards, the customers (Japan, etc.) pay to have the apples enclosed in paper bags. Has to be quite a chore when the orchards are large. (this is in the organic orchards) To try to keep the birds out, I hang old cds on a long string, they move around and the shiny look seems to keep the birds out. Do the same thing over the rows of strawberries. Interesting! I have a dancer in the house, so plenty of discarded hosiery to turn into some kind of apple bag. What do you tie them on with, and how snugly do you tie it? Do you have to do any spraying at all?
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Post by farmerjack41 on Mar 4, 2018 19:04:20 GMT -5
They need to be fairly tight, but enough room for things to grow. Most of the damage is when the bug lands on the apple, punch a hole and lays eggs. If I spray, it is at the end of the season, bugs will start eating the fruit around the stem. Use a weak homeowner fruit spray. Usually spray the wood of the tree in late spring to kill anything that has over wintered in the bark. There may well be a little bug damage, but not much.
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Post by brownrexx on Mar 5, 2018 7:23:33 GMT -5
We grow pear trees and Asian pear trees organically. I think that apple trees may have a few more pests but we spray with something called dormant oil in the fall and early spring before the trees flower. This smothers insects under the bark.
I have not been really diligent with this but we also have an organic spray called Pyganic that we occasionally use to combat stink bugs. It was expensive but seemed to work. It is a pyrethrin spray. We get enough pears for our use without spraying so we usually don't bother.
Now that you mention it, I should probably mix up some dormant oil spray and get out there now because it is the perfect time.
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Post by ladymarmalade on Mar 5, 2018 11:11:45 GMT -5
We grow pear trees and Asian pear trees organically. I think that apple trees may have a few more pests but we spray with something called dormant oil in the fall and early spring before the trees flower. This smothers insects under the bark. I have not been really diligent with this but we also have an organic spray called Pyganic that we occasionally use to combat stink bugs. It was expensive but seemed to work. It is a pyrethrin spray. We get enough pears for our use without spraying so we usually don't bother. Now that you mention it, I should probably mix up some dormant oil spray and get out there now because it is the perfect time. I grew up with pear trees, and they have never needed spraying of any kind here in Wisconsin. Every couple of years the trees take turns having a dormant season with very little fruit, but then the following year they are all back to full production. But, we don't really have big problems with stink bugs here either.
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Post by brownrexx on Mar 5, 2018 13:44:44 GMT -5
ladymarmalade , we used to have perfect pears until the invasive Brown Marmorated stinkbug came to town several years ago. They ruined our entire crop! The pears were all deformed and had hard spots inside where the stink bugs had pierced the skins. It was horrible. I am not sure what pests bother apple trees but the Pyganic may work on them as well. I have seen these big blow up beach balls hanging in apple trees. They have big black circles painted on them to look like eyes and they are supposed to be a deterrent to something that is bad for apple trees but I don't know what. I can't imagine bugs being afraid of beach balls.
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Post by mgulfcoastguy on Mar 6, 2018 16:42:38 GMT -5
Tanglefoot spread on yellow plastic makes a daily effective sticky trap for stink bugs. Also planting sunflowers makes for a good catch crop for stink bugs.
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Post by hairymooseknuckles on Mar 12, 2019 14:51:59 GMT -5
I found honeycrisp apple trees at the farm and ranch. Seems like I remember needing two trees to grow apples??? Might not have understood. How many years till I can eat apples?
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Post by ladymarmalade on Mar 12, 2019 15:26:48 GMT -5
I found honeycrisp apple trees at the farm and ranch. Seems like I remember needing two trees to grow apples??? Might not have understood. How many years till I can eat apples? Whether or not an apple tree needs a pollinator depends on the apple- some are self-fruiting. Stark Brothers lists honeycrisp apple as needing a pollinator. Ideally, it needs to be a tree that blooms at the same time- honeycrisp is an early to mid-bloomer. Jonathan and Golden Delicious were two that they recommended, but I'm sure others would work too. The pollinator tree needs to be within 50 feet, so it doesn't necessarily need to be close- a tree on a neighboring property would work fine. 2-5 years from planting to first fruits.
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Post by hairymooseknuckles on Mar 12, 2019 16:07:50 GMT -5
ladymarmalade , Thanks!!!! I have no idea if they will do well here or not. My Sister had a Granny Smith and she lived about 40 west of me. As far as I know, no apple trees are near me. There's only 6 houses out here in BFE. The rest of the land is farm and ranch land. Though more and more people are moving out this way. I noticed about 3 miles from here someone is building a house. Just what we needed more people. 15 years ago there were 3 houses and one of them was vacant. As far as I'm concerned that was plenty. I've been thinking of having a sign painted to go on my gate. 4 old cranky farts live here, now get to steppin'
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Post by coppice on Mar 13, 2019 9:19:51 GMT -5
Growing fruit dot org had a longish piece a few years back on growing apple organically. Some of those ploys are already in this thread.
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Post by september on Mar 13, 2019 9:59:19 GMT -5
Thanks, coppice , I found more information on their website on the cherry trees that I am interested in, than anywhere else! Great site for fruit trees, so happy you posted it.
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Post by paquebot on Mar 13, 2019 11:35:46 GMT -5
I found honeycrisp apple trees at the farm and ranch. Seems like I remember needing two trees to grow apples??? Might not have understood. How many years till I can eat apples? If there is another tree blooming at the same time within a half-mile upwind, a single tree may be properly pollinated. I know of one such tree at the head of a long east-west valley. When it is blooming, there is not another apple tree in sight. The westerly winds bring pollen up from trees in the valley and that tree is always loaded. Martin The truth is more important than the facts.
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Post by carolyn on Mar 13, 2019 12:00:19 GMT -5
Can I tell you it is much cheaper to actually go to an orchard and buy something they have grown. If you aren't spraying no worries but to spend lots of money on the sprays and the equipment it takes to spray it you are far better off just buying the apples from the orchard. we have about 40 apple trees and they are a lot of work. planting, pruning, staking if required, pruning, pruning, more pruning, spraying=$$$$$$$$$$$$, and harvesting... and honeycrisp is the hardest apple to get a crop from. We have 2 of them and in 10 years I don't think we have gotten 50 apples.
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Post by hairymooseknuckles on Mar 13, 2019 14:29:25 GMT -5
Speaking of Apples, how come the Red Delicious are so awful now. 45 years ago, We (Ag Shop Students) in High School used to sell Washington Apples. People loved them! They actually got mad if you didn't come by their house to take their order. One year our Ag shop heat didn't come on and our whole order froze. We lost a boat load of money and people were foaming at the mouth cause we didn't have any apples. I always assumed they were Red Delicious, but I don't know. We sold apples, Oranges, Grapefruit, etc. I just remember the boxes being labeled Washington Apples.
I'm going the long way around the barn to say that the Red Delicious apples I've tried in the last few years are mealy, tough and tasteless.
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Post by ladymarmalade on Mar 13, 2019 14:45:14 GMT -5
I agree hairymooseknuckles! In fact, some of my favorite apples at a local orchard are the ones that are a cross of Red Delicious with something else. That sweetness of a red delicious is a one of a kind taste that I really appreciate. I think if you can get a Red Delicious fresh off a tree- or close to fresh anyway, there's a world of difference between that and a Red Delicious that's been sitting in storage getting mealy.
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Post by carolyn on Mar 13, 2019 16:58:46 GMT -5
We bought a heritage red delicious from Starks a few years ago. After a g few years of pruning fertilizing and spraying we got one apple off of it and cut it down. it didn't taste any better than a store bought apple to us.
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Post by Laura_in_FL on Mar 14, 2019 11:19:20 GMT -5
I don't think I have ever had a decent Red Delicious! I always assumed the name was either brilliant marketing, a sarcastic joke, or both.
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Post by paquebot on Mar 15, 2019 14:50:35 GMT -5
There are some delicious Red Delicious trees around but they are forgotten in old orchards. One area of SW Wisconsin has been famous for apple orchards for many years. One of my relatives, a McIntosh, is shown with 20 acres on top of a ridge ion the 1895 plat map. Later became known as Apple Hill. Every farm had at least one orchard and out home farm had 3. Anyway, there was one which was probably abandoned in the 1950s. By the time I found it when hunting in the 1970s, the road leading to it had oak trees 6" thick growing in it. At the far SW corner of the orchard were 5 or 6 Red Delicious. They were smaller than what one usually sees now but were sweet. Something went wrong somewhere in the system whereas availability was more important than quality. Sweeter means more sugar. More sugar means shorter storage.
Martin
The truth is more important than the facts.
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Post by hairymooseknuckles on Mar 15, 2019 15:36:38 GMT -5
We have 4 Plum trees and a persimmon. I wouldn't mind a pear, a fig, and a few apple and peach trees. Got plenty of space. Walking down to the tank, we have what I call "Junk" trees. Hackberry, Mesquite, and locust. Then Once you get to the tank, it's surrounded by Willows. The Willows are huge, I bet they each drink a 100 gallons of water per day. I should have never let them take a hold, but it is what it is.
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Post by mgulfcoastguy on Mar 15, 2019 17:15:10 GMT -5
I haven't eaten Red Delicious in years. Golden Delicious is still good though.
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Post by meandtk on Mar 15, 2019 17:22:34 GMT -5
I have young En Sheimer, Anna, Dorsett Golden apples. Three Keiffer pears. Two black Mulberries.
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Post by hairymooseknuckles on Mar 15, 2019 17:28:13 GMT -5
I have young En Sheimer, Anna, Dorsett Golden apples. Three Keiffer pears. Two black Mulberries. We had a black mulberry on the farm where I grew up. I used to live in that tree. Someone was always hollering at me to get out of that tree.
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Post by Laura_in_FL on Mar 17, 2019 17:52:32 GMT -5
Hopefully the black mulberries are not growing close to a house or paved area. They will bear delicious fruit like mad, but the fruit stains everything when it drops. Good luck with your apples - those are good cultivars to try in your location. If you are game to try another apple as well, TropicSweet is a more recent UF-developed apple for low-chill areas. Its bloom time would overlap with the other varieties for cross-pollination, too. If you get at least 400-500 chill hours in your area, Golden Delicious and Granny Smith might also work. Just Fruits and Exotics also has some "found" apple varieties that are supposed to crop with less maintenance along and near the Gulf Coast. But they are not available on dwarfing root stock so they would take up too much space for me. Those Keiffer pears should do great for you in time, too.
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Post by coppice on Mar 18, 2019 7:40:36 GMT -5
Everything I thought I knew about chilling-hours and apple, has had a huge hole torn in it by some Ugandan apple growers in tropical Africa. Seems a seaonal dry season can stand in and do duty for winter dormancy.
So everything I thunk I knew, may not be as true now.
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Post by meandtk on Mar 18, 2019 9:27:03 GMT -5
Hopefully the black mulberries are not growing close to a house or paved area. They will bear delicious fruit like mad, but the fruit stains everything when it drops. Good luck with your apples - those are good cultivars to try in your location. If you are game to try another apple as well, TropicSweet is a more recent UF-developed apple for low-chill areas. Its bloom time would overlap with the other varieties for cross-pollination, too. If you get at least 400-500 chill hours in your area, Golden Delicious and Granny Smith might also work. Just Fruits and Exotics also has some "found" apple varieties that are supposed to crop with less maintenance along and near the Gulf Coast. But they are not available on dwarfing root stock so they would take up too much space for me. Those Keiffer pears should do great for you in time, too. Maybe I can bet that TropicSweet next year. 👍🏻 No sidewalks in the country, so Mulberries are ok.
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Post by Laura_in_FL on Mar 18, 2019 9:32:09 GMT -5
When I was a kid, my Granny had a big mulberry tree that we used to sit under when we were shelling Pink Eye Purple Hull and White Acre peas from her garden. So I have good memories associated with mulberry trees, even though it was icky when the berries squished under my bare feet!
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reubent
Pro Member
Posts: 389
Joined: May 2011
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Post by reubent on Mar 26, 2019 3:47:36 GMT -5
Poor productivity is mostly due to lack of minerals in the soil. The soluble elements get leached out when there's not enough carbon to hang onto them, and too much rain, and the lack of carbon makes for poor conditions for the soil microbes and fungi which digest the insoluble minerals for the plant roots to use. Sweeter means more sugar. More sugar means shorter storage. It seems there's more to it than simple sweetness. From my research in fertility management I learned that the higher the brix can be pushed up in fruit by increasing the mineral density the better it keeps, and the better it tastes, and the better the resistance to insect damage and disease. It may be that sweeter without the mineral density for high brix can make it spoil faster. But I don't know what could make that, it's usually the less sweet and lower brix fruit that spoils faster. In my tree plantings, will do plenty of apples. I'm using biochar, (to soak of the soluble elements and prevent leaching, as well as make happy home for the good soil microbial life and fungi) and minerals, soft rock phosphate (calphos) and azomite, along with lime for those things that can take it, (plenty of calcium in the calphos as well) I plan on adding more and more of it around the trees as they grow, and doing folier sprays with the product called Amaze from international ag labs, The more often the better. It's a combination of calcium and phosphate that is formulated for best leaf intake through the stomata. Add a little sea water and kelp extract to it perhaps. I hope I can completely avoid use of all toxic compounds, I do not like putting poison on something we are going to eat, it's nonsense. I suspect if I can do it up good enough I can do all spraying with the non toxic mineral compounds and have terrific fruit without anything toxic added. But it still takes a spray rig. So I've been looking at possibilities for low profile tractors that would be good for the regular runs with sprayer on the hillside orchards I'm planting. The one I like best is the Ferrari with wide tires, the one they're looking at 2 minutes into the video, but I will have to get some real production going to afford it.
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Post by carolyn on Mar 28, 2019 7:00:16 GMT -5
I haven't eaten Red Delicious in years. Golden Delicious is still good though. you are not missing anything either. I just don't understand how or why this is the best selling apple in america.
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