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Post by paulf on Oct 14, 2022 11:27:16 GMT -5
Our son bought our granddaughter an older Nissan Leaf as a school car; it get about 60 miles to the recharge that takes overnight to fill up with electricity. Newer all-electrics are supposed to a couple hundred miles. That is still two hundred short for a trip to visit them from where we live. There are getting to be more charge stations but not enough to trust going anywhere long distance. We have a charging station in our little village that a few tourists use. It is still free but take a long time for a full charge.
Most stations charge a fee. Not as much as a gas fill-up but still a fee. I think somebody is getting the cart before the horse. Until a network of charging stations is in place then the rush to electrics can begin. Battery technology is evolving but at an expense most of us cannot afford...yet. I am sure it will get there and that will be OK but why push things from the wrong end? I do have a Hybrid Toyota RAV 4 with a battery that charges itself from a gasoline engine. Mileage is 25% better than my last RAV and it has a range of 400 miles on a fill of gas. Until my range is 400 miles on a charge I will continue to pump gasoline.
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Post by spike on Oct 14, 2022 12:17:25 GMT -5
I guess if you are using an electric vehicle to go to work/store etc they would be fine. But not sure they would be worthwhile for road trips. Plus what happens when there is a problem and the power is out? I guess IMHO electric vehicles may be great for some people but I am not interested for myself.
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Post by mgulfcoastguy on Oct 14, 2022 12:50:50 GMT -5
So how long does it take to charge an electric vehicle? How far can you travel? Curious if electric vehicles are road trip worthy? How long depends on a lot of factors. Are you charging at the house using a dedicated 240V charger? Then over night because that way I gain 33 to 36 miles of range per hour and wake up everyday to a "full tank" without having to drive to a gas station. If you use a fast charging station on the road it varies according to the brand and model of electric vehicle, the station, and how high that you want to charge it. My car can charge from 10% to 80% at a typical station in 38 minutes and it is a 2021 model. The same type in a 2023 model can charge in 38 minutes. Hyundai, Kia, Porsche have models that can do that in 20 minutes. There are currently some gaps in charging station coverage, download an app called PlugShare for your phone and you can see where all of the charging stations are located. The previous federal infrastructure bill contained funds to build out the charging network with chargers every 50 mile and to be completed within 4 years. Not going to get into the other portions of that bill. There were several expansion programs underway before the bill was signed by private companies. As to how far this morning the cars guess-meter said 215 miles at 80 percent . That varies according to how heavy your foot is and most of the things that affect gas mileage. My rule of thumb is to plan on stopping for 20 to 30 minutes every 2 to 2 1/2 hours. There are some cars that can approach 300 miles range but as the range goes up the price typically does also. In addition many hotels have free charging similar to what I have at the house.
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Post by spike on Oct 14, 2022 13:38:01 GMT -5
mgulfcoastguy, Thank you. As you can tell I know nothing about electric vehicles. But charging isn't really as bad as I thought. Stop on a road trip and have a meal while charging! Sadly I can't afford a new vehicle whether it be gas or electric so it really doesn't matter.
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Post by Laura_in_FL on Oct 14, 2022 18:03:32 GMT -5
My car is currently charging at 40 amps. That is about the same electricity that a clothes dryer or electric oven draws. This time of the night most businesses are closed, cooking is over, lights are starting to be shut off. Since most nuclear, coal, or combined cycle natural gas plants don't "throttle down" very easily that means that the power companies are trying to give surplus electricity away. In fact electric cars are doing the grid a favor. Now in some other states that have enacted onerous regulations regarding power generation or the maintenance of and distribution of power, yes they are going to have problems. Btw Georgia is currently finishing two additional nuclear power plants. The higher natural gas prices (and certain third rail actions) might change public opinion on nuclear power plants, here and in Europe in general and Germany most specifically. Anyhow additional charging capacity will eventually be needed, partially due to population increase. It is technically easy though politically difficult in about a third of the country.Their loss. One problem, mgulfcoastguy , is that some areas are going headlong into increasing dependence on electricity from renewables without ensuring that there is adequate surge or backup capacity from other sources (nuke, coal, natural gas, or even battery backup) for nighttime, times when the wind isn't blowing, and in droughts when water flow decreases. When a region is heavily and increasingly dependent on solar and wind while simultaneously mandating a switch to EVs, they are going to run into serious grid problems sooner or later. That's because most people will want (or need) to charge at night, when there is zero solar power generation and winds are often lighter. That is, as you said, a political problem, because politics makes it difficult or impossible to increase generation capacity from other-than-renewable sources in the same areas that are pushing carbon reductions and EV mandates. The problem is made worse because at present, grid-scale battery backups are prohibitively expensive. Right now some of the places that are already having supply issues - like California - are importing an increasing share of their energy from elsewhere to cover the shortfalls. But if other regions follow the same policies, eventually there won't be enough energy to buy. That doesn't begin to touch on the hardships that come from being dependent on geopolitical rivals for the energy necessary for day to day survival. We complain about how expensive energy is here, but parts of Europe are suffering much, much worse than we are. Anyhow, I apologize if this post strayed too much into politics. I was trying to present the situation as neutrally as I know how to, but energy cost is a hot-button issue.
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Post by paulf on Oct 15, 2022 9:44:23 GMT -5
With a nuclear facility in my neighborhood, there is a lot of talk on how things are done straight from the workers mouths. Nebraska had two nuke plants but shut one down due to excessive bureaucratic regulations without any clear oversight from elected officials. The Washington office sitters decided to pile on regulation after regulation just to make themselves important and keep redundant jobs. What used to be three or fours layers of safeguards is now up to more than ten with additional regulations to come. What was millions of dollars to build and operate a power plant of any fuel source now is in the billions.
Safety is absolutely necessary but these excessive layers of regulations are meant to discourage building more power plants. I was an operator in a coal and natural gas powered utility and in those sixteen years what was an absolutely safe and efficient producer of power, millions of dollars were spent just to keep up with excessive new and mostly stupid regulations that had no relevance to our site. Politics aside, bureaucracy is rampant with either no oversight or with tacit acceptance by some politicians trying to change the smooth operation of the country's power grid.
Iowa and now Missouri and Nebraska are getting more wind turbines. I have no problem with that; only that cost/benefit studies indicate average payback is more than seventy-five years with the average life of a turbine at less than fifty years. That means that energy source will never show a profit unless the price of electricity is massively increased. Solar is great if the sun shines and there are large spaces available for the panels. I am really surprised Georgia is able to build two new power plants. How long have they been under construction and at what cost? Is there a problem with activists protesting? Some hate nuclear energy without a clue how it works and they have a loud voice in Washington among the office sitters who love to make things difficult for the average person.
As you see, I get a bit riled over the bureaucracies and their uncontrolled role in running our country. Happily for this site, this is the last comment on the subject. Sorry to have been a pain. Oh, by the way, the tomatoes and peppers are now finished. See you on the gardening portion.
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Post by mgulfcoastguy on Oct 15, 2022 11:27:01 GMT -5
To answer the question about Georgia. The reactors are very much over the original time estimate and cost estimate. The original contractor gave up and they had to get a replacement contractor. Because so few reactors have been built there is a shortage on people who know how to for instance pour concrete to the proper standards. I know from personal experience that contractors that usually pour house slabs have essentially no emphasis on concrete quality. They usually pour it so wet that it comes out of the truck like an elephant with diarrhea. That means weak concrete prone to cracking. Essentially the inspectors have to both work themselves to death and retrain the contractors employees. Then there are the constant civil cases launched by the Sierra Club and similar outfits. That leads to excess regulations by the local, state, and federal agencies CYA. The future is probably smaller modular reactors that are factory built and delivered by train.They would be pre approved and pre inspected by the feds and can be delivered and set up before the NIMBYs can organize. And to keep this gardening related, I picked my first pomegranate yesterday evening. The remaining two will be picked on Tuesday before the cold front moves in.
PS my state has a pair of nuclear reactors but all of the electricity is exported West across the Mississippi River. We should have had another rather than that abortion of a coal gasification plant with "carbon capture".
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