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Post by september on Oct 13, 2015 8:47:09 GMT -5
I have a hard time growing anything in the open, because the deer are constantly trimming things down to bare stalks. A few years ago I bought some nice bare root apple trees and after planting, we surrounded them with mesh cages to try to deter the deer brousing until the trees at least gained some size. This worked well, but then two years ago we had extreme winter temps down past -30 - 35F for a longer period, and one of the tree died back and fizzled out above the graft. The other tree is in dire need of pruning, but has grown three equally nice leaders so it's hard to decide which ones have to go. I don't plan to buy any more apple trees, because it's going to be a never ending battle with the deer, but I wonder what the chances are that the root stock of the dead tree, which now has a million suckers would be able to provide some blossoms for cross pollination of the other tree.
I suppose it depends on what the root stock was, I have no idea if they use a variety of hardy, early flowering stock that would not even bloom at the same time as a larger apple, or if there is a standard graft variety that is mostly used. I guess what I would like to know is if there is any sense in trying to remove the excess suckers and trying to grow an unknown tree just for pollination, or if I should just give up and cut down both trees so my husband won't keep complaining about having to mow around them!
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Post by Laura_in_FL on Oct 13, 2015 8:59:01 GMT -5
Maybe you could find someone who has an apple tree that is a good pollinator for your existing apple tree, and ask them for some scion wood to graft onto your rootstock? Then in a few years you would be sure of having a tree with a compatible bloom time, and the extra fruit off the grafted tree would be a bonus. This method would just cost you the postage reimbursement for the person who sent you scion wood. (Or you could trade for something else in your garden.) I don't know what kind of apple your other tree is, but here is a pollination chart showing several varieties: www.hartmannursery.com/apple_pollination.htmHope this helps!
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Post by Laura_in_FL on Oct 13, 2015 9:00:33 GMT -5
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Post by paulf on Oct 13, 2015 9:07:16 GMT -5
My opinion is to cut your losses and start over. Deer are a real problem but you have the right idea. I finally got some trees to grow by putting up a chicken wire cage around them. I don't know where you got your trees, but mine have all come from Stark Bros. Nursery. Their catalog is an excellent source of what trees to plant together for the best pollination. You have discovered that new trees need to be kept watered. Be sure to water in well in the fall right up to ground freeze and if it thaws during the winter months, water more. I don't mind mowing around trees that may give fruit in the future...it's those useless shrubs and flowers that are always in the way. Good luck with whatever you decide.
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Post by september on Oct 13, 2015 9:22:41 GMT -5
Thanks Laura and Paul for your advice. I never thought of doing a new graft on the old hardy rootstock. I have my tree varieties written down somewhere, just can't remember them off the top of my head. I've never done grafting, I suppose spring/summer is the optimal time? I could probably find someone local that has a compatible tree to beg scion wood from. At worst, it wouldn't take and I would have had a new experience! There are so many suckers that I could do four or five and see which take.
Paul, I bought my trees from a local independent nursery, and so picked some nice healthy ones , of which most were appropriate to our area. The one that died is a bit marginal here, but our winters have gotten much milder in the last 15 years, so I thought I would take a chance -- just my luck that we reverted back to the arctic that one year. I may give the trees one more year before I decide to chop 'em down. Just don't want to put too much effort into something the deer will wreck anyway.
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Post by coppice on Oct 26, 2015 2:33:53 GMT -5
I have a hard time growing anything in the open, because the deer are constantly trimming things down to bare stalks. If you do add grafts you may also want some kind of graze protection till your additions get bigger. IMO this site is worth your read: skillcult.com/
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Post by september on Oct 26, 2015 10:44:25 GMT -5
Thanks, Coppice! I only had time to look at the Frankentree video, but there is lots of interesting stuff on that site I will be back for. I have all winter to decide what to do. When I remember to, I will take a picture of all the suckers growing from the rootstock base, and you can advise me on which and how many to keep. I think I will try the grafting, nothing to lose if it doesn't take. The deer around here are fierce and smart! On my front garden, I had to replace my battery operated electric fence with a much higher deer netting fence because the zap just wasn't doing it later in the season. My other back garden is close enough to power from the house current which packs a whallop (don't ask how I know -- 3 times even! ) but the strands are not that high, so by the end of September when the deer go into their foraging frenzy, they will jump over or crawl under and clean up anything I have not harvested, and the dumber ones will take out the fence on their way out. I even have deer netting draped from shepard's hooks protecting my flower garden, and they sneak onto the cement pad under our 2nd story deck at night to chew on my potted plants. Nothing survives unprotected. And what makes me mad, is there are acres of undisturbed woods surrounding me for them to range in, so not like they are close to a suburban development where they don't have much choice. I'm just providing the gourmet snacks for them.
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Post by coppice on Nov 6, 2015 9:09:15 GMT -5
Unless your going to make a collar around your tree and let those suckers make some roots, they won't be viable. See stooling a tree (in order to make root-stock). Or seek out free standing volunteer trees to use as your feet. Or, talk off list to me and get some that should be big enough to use for feet in 2017.
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Post by september on Nov 6, 2015 10:53:14 GMT -5
Well, now I know what coppice means! Ha, ha! I knew it had something to do with a small stand of trees, but not the stooling part!
I looked up a couple of sites. My old plan was to remove all the suckers except for maybe 3 or 4 spaced equally and just let the old root stock supply them. Graft scions onto them, and see what takes. I suppose the trouble with this plan is that new suckers will keep coming up and not enough nutrition for the selected ones I want to grow. Can I stool (more than one season?) and graft at the same time?
Again, I don't want to put too much effort into it with my looming deer problem, my husband will not support putting any more cages in the way of his mower. But it would be fun to experiment. The current tree is already fenced and ideally I would like to grow out just one (or more if possible) suckers to replace it in situ, with grafted scions. If you think that's a bad idea, and will ultimately have to replant the stooled rootstocks to another location, I might just be better off mowing it down completely and buying one larger nursery tree to plant that can give me apples sooner. Still, at least I can mess with the old one for a while to understand grafting.
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