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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2011 12:00:52 GMT -5
I had mixed results this year from my garlics. Some were beautiful and some has disintegrating skins and they are fine, but smell a bit musty. Maybe they got too much water after the leaves started browning??
I saved the bulbils and am going to plant them soon in flats. They won't make full sized plants will they?
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Post by coppice on Jul 18, 2011 19:06:56 GMT -5
Plant them direct to feild with about 4 inch spacing in blocks. Mulch them in. the bulbils will start to grow in the fall. Next summer they will have formed single cloves. Those yearling garlic will be Ok to eat, but smaller than a two-year garlic bulb.
If you want bigger compound bulbs the following year replant them on 6 inch spacing in blocks.
It don't take that many years before you have all the garlic your gonna eat (or sell) in a year. Thereafter remove scapes, to get bigger compound garlics.
If bigger garlic is your goal only rplant the biggest third of your bulbs. Eat-sell the rest.
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Post by paquebot on Jul 18, 2011 22:01:41 GMT -5
What you get the second year depends upon the type and variety. Most rocamboles will produce a divided bulb. Purple stripes may or may not divide. Porcelains will result in nothing much bigger than a pea. A member on another forum thought that he was going to grow an awful lot of garlic by planting 500+ bulbils. He just harvested 500+ pea-sized bulbs!
Martin
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2011 22:16:17 GMT -5
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Post by coppice on Jul 19, 2011 5:19:45 GMT -5
I only grow hard neck garlic, what I know is based on direct experience only. The last citation of Diggin' from Boundary Garlic sounds to be both some hard earned experience and a good shot of science.
I'm pleased at how well my experience and Diggin's match up.
I guess what I'd like folks to take away from this is garlic thread is its do-able and of real benefit for a small holder.
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Post by paquebot on Jul 20, 2011 1:12:59 GMT -5
I knew full well what I'd get. My fault for assuming that you were the just one more of the many who think that selling only bulbs is just a gimmick to make money. It's amusing to find some novice trying to claim that one can get divided bulbs from any bulbil. Sometimes I just think that I should say to hell with it and let the suckers learn the hard way! We did get a lot of bulbils from Boundary several years ago. For some, I'll be planting back rounds while others will be from tiny 3 to 5 clove bulbs. This will be the third year for Alberta Hardy, Colorado Black, Czech Broadleaf, Fishlake, Gaia's, Magical, Magnifico, Moana Special, Northern Quebec, Purple Max, Puslinch, and Ukrainian Mavniv. The bulbils for all of them weren't any bigger than a grain of wheat. This will be their third year and Boundary says at least 3 years for them. It also doesn't help when some sellers make claims which are not true. Purple stripes and rocamboles will indeed make a divided bulb but size would be disappointing to most. Never had a purple stripe much bigger than an inch from a bulbil but some rocamboles may go to 2 inches. Planted bulbils from 18 rocamboles last fall. Varieties were Amish Rocambole, Bavarian, Bogatyr, Brown Saxon. Chrysalis Purple, Colorado Purple, George, German Red, Hnat, Japanese, Khabar, Korean Mountain, Kuty, Merrifield Red, Penasco Blue, St. Helen's, Temptress, and Yugoslavian. Although each bulbil ¼" or larger, the results were from barely 1" to 2"+. The plants themselves ranged from 18" to 36". Those results surprised me since I expected them to be much close in both size of bulbs and plants. Next will be to plant those cloves back and see if all get to full size in 2 years or need 3. Boundary says two years for full size and we agree. There is no database on the size of bulbils for each variety and they do vary within the same types. In many instances, otherwise identical varieties can be differentiated only by their different size bulbils. I have a list of about 100 varieties from last year separated into 3 classes, (-), (o), and (+). That's only average size. Each could probably be divided again as well as adding double and medusa heads. Just as with me, Boundary will not make definite claims on any type. That's why we use "about" and "as least" in informing a potential bulbil planter as to what to expect. I've 50-60 Martin's scapes sitting in a bucket of water while they mature. When I distribute the bulbils, I will guarantee that they will produce a normal divided bulb. I will not guarantee anything over 2" despite 3½"-4" potential. Martin
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2011 1:45:47 GMT -5
I knew full well what I'd get. My fault for assuming that you were the just one more of the many who think that selling only bulbs is just a gimmick to make money. It's amusing to find some novice trying to claim that one can get divided bulbs from any bulbil. Sometimes I just think that I should say to hell with it and let the suckers learn the hard way! We did get a lot of bulbils from Boundary several years ago. For some, I'll be planting back rounds while others will be from tiny 3 to 5 clove bulbs. This will be the third year for Alberta Hardy, Colorado Black, Czech Broadleaf, Fishlake, Gaia's, Magical, Magnifico, Moana Special, Northern Quebec, Purple Max, Puslinch, and Ukrainian Mavniv. The bulbils for all of them weren't any bigger than a grain of wheat. This will be their third year and Boundary says at least 3 years for them. It also doesn't help when some sellers make claims which are not true. Purple stripes and rocamboles will indeed make a divided bulb but size would be disappointing to most. Never had a purple stripe much bigger than an inch from a bulbil but some rocamboles may go to 2 inches. Planted bulbils from 18 rocamboles last fall. Varieties were Amish Rocambole, Bavarian, Bogatyr, Brown Saxon. Chrysalis Purple, Colorado Purple, George, German Red, Hnat, Japanese, Khabar, Korean Mountain, Kuty, Merrifield Red, Penasco Blue, St. Helen's, Temptress, and Yugoslavian. Although each bulbil ¼" or larger, the results were from barely 1" to 2"+. The plants themselves ranged from 18" to 36". Those results surprised me since I expected them to be much close in both size of bulbs and plants. Next will be to plant those cloves back and see if all get to full size in 2 years or need 3. Boundary says two years for full size and we agree. There is no database on the size of bulbils for each variety and they do vary within the same types. In many instances, otherwise identical varieties can be differentiated only by their different size bulbils. I have a list of about 100 varieties from last year separated into 3 classes, (-), (o), and (+). That's only average size. Each could probably be divided again as well as adding double and medusa heads. Just as with me, Boundary will not make definite claims on any type. That's why we use "about" and "as least" in informing a potential bulbil planter as to what to expect. I've 50-60 Martin's scapes sitting in a bucket of water while they mature. When I distribute the bulbils, I will guarantee that they will produce a normal divided bulb. I will not guarantee anything over 2" despite 3½"-4" potential. Martin Understood, Martin!!! And thanks for your input! Much of this is definitely un-chartered territory being that bulbil size does vary so much from variety to variety and such. I have experimented with bulbils a few times over the years....not always following through in the way that I should have because other things were more pressing. I have an interest because my Grandfather grew garlic from not only cloves but also bulbils...unfortunately...he's been gone for almost a decade so I've lost access to his wisdom.....I wish I'd paid more attention when he was still gardening and farming. Anyway..... What was most surprising to me was how long the tiny bulbils stayed viable...that's amazing. One big problem with broadcasting the tiny bulbils last fall in the way that I did was the issue of weeds.....it's not easy to keep them weed free without uprooting them in the process...I think I'm going to experiment with something soilless/weed-free for first year bulbil culture in order to skirt the weed issue. By the way...there are still likely hundreds of tiny bulbils still left in that bed...I just got tired of looking for them!!! LOL
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Post by paquebot on Jul 20, 2011 3:25:38 GMT -5
I only grow hard neck garlic, what I know is based on direct experience only. The last citation of Diggin' from Boundary Garlic sounds to be both some hard earned experience and a good shot of science. Boundary has only been playing with garlic bulbils since 1999. By then, I had 15 years experience. There's some question about if it were 1983 or 1984 when I planted some no-name garlic bulbils from Holland. From then until 1999, only the largest bulbils were planted back since there was nobody else around here growing garlic and nobody to say that cloves should be planted. Internet not only informed me as to how to plant garlic but also made more and more gardeners aware of the many varieties and their different tastes. Just about everything that most now know about garlic has come in the past 10 years, both growing and cooking. By 2005, I had between 25 and 30 varieties and not capable of becoming a collector. I teamed up with "Karen & Mike" to share all of my excess. Planted 5,000 cloves that fall to supply local produce auctions. It was fun but zero profit. Next year, 8,000 cloves planted. However, the idea of barely averaging 25¢ per bulb did not appeal to me. I told Karen to set up a web site to sell bulbs for planting. Her response was: "How will anyone know where to find us?" My reply was: "You set up the site and I will tell the world." A single mention on IDig and HT was sufficient and what started as just a hobby to grow something for a local produce auction market became a way to introduce great garlic to the average American gardener at prices they could afford. Next year, 15,000 cloves planted. Following year, new field plowed and 27,000 cloves planted. There's room for 40,000 but Karen wants to hold it down to 25,000. My own vegetable garden takes up about 6,000 square feet of which about 4,000 is not to be considered for anything else as long as I am capable of gardening. I'm hopeful of possibly 5,000 garlic plants from my home stock plus everything from the bulbil experiments. I think that we can combine for 35,000 but depends upon how much vegetable space I want to lose. Mike and I have the planting down to where we can easily plant 5,000 cloves per day and we did that in 5 days last fall. I know that we can do better if we change just one part of the system. Harvesting is the same rate. Began last Monday and last plants out of the ground Friday afternoon. Where the garlic had been was disked twice on Saturday morning to disrupt any weeds and the same will be done in another month. In case you haven't figured out who "we" are, for a long time I was the only one growing garlic around here and thus I grew garlic. When I found a nice young couple who had just gotten into the game, and felt that they were the ones worthy of sharing everything that I had learned from growing garlic, it was we growing garlic. Look around and you'll find me here and there on www.wegrowgarlic.com Biggest rocambole that we grow is Martin's and probably that big due to so many years of my only planting back the biggest bulbils. Martin
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littleminnie
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Post by littleminnie on Jul 21, 2011 22:21:08 GMT -5
Where do you dry so much garlic? I have been harvesting mine- probably 600-700 - and finding it so much to cure! I have some in my basement in the cool, dry and some in the barn on a wire rack in the hot and slightly humid. I dried it outside last year under and eave and had lots of mold. And my neck hurts from digging/pulling with the right arm while the left arm hangs there. I always get a sore left neck when I stand/bend and do things with my right arm.
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Post by paquebot on Jul 22, 2011 13:38:05 GMT -5
Look at the pictures on the site. There's at least one or two showing some of us standing in front of an old granary. It was one designed for grain in the top floor and corn at ground level. The side walls consist of narrow boards with an inch gap between. That allows for air flow from the sides. The first floor ceiling consists of stringers rather than rafters and run full width of the building. Being about 10' above the floor, it allows long strings of up to 100 or more of one variety. There is too much densely packed to rely upon natural air flow and therefore a barn fan is used to guarantee a good constant air change.
Martin
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2011 18:20:51 GMT -5
Just as with me, Boundary will not make definite claims on any type. That's why we use "about" and "as least" in informing a potential bulbil planter as to what to expect. I've 50-60 Martin's scapes sitting in a bucket of water while they mature. When I distribute the bulbils, I will guarantee that they will produce a normal divided bulb. I will not guarantee anything over 2" despite 3½"-4" potential. Martin Martin, Please keep me in mind when you offer bulbils of Martin's this year. I got to Karen and Mike's website a few hours after they began accepting orders and Martin's was already sold out for the season. I did place an order for Pyong Vang, though. Looking forward to planting again this year and applying all I've learned. Please keep up the good work of educating those of us who are allium challenged. Virginia
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Post by paquebot on Jul 22, 2011 23:58:09 GMT -5
I'm not surprised that Martin's went fast. There is no waiting list but many who clicked on the site every day to make certain that they didn't miss out. And, with the new minimum of 5 bulbs per variety, potentially only 20% got them. But it had to be that way. There were requests for 50-60 varieties at one bulb each and the time involved just wasn't fair. We all still consider it as a hobby but not one where the bottom line shows a big loss. My own time and expenses are strictly voluntary. I've got about 10-12 pickup loads of bagged shredded leaves to be mixed with the horse manure and spread next month to add some humus to the soil. First year of the second field, I made a special hole mix of blood meal and bone meal for each clove. In the end, the only reward I want is to see some lovely garlic hanging now and gone a month from now.
As far as educating everyone about alliums, there were 3 of us who were behind forming the Allium Forum on Garden Web. Haven't been there since 2006 so don't know who's the top allium people now.
HT will be the only place where Martin's bulbils will be offered. Could have offered a mixed fun bag after digging up a few hundred volunteers at home this past week. Saved the bulbs for cooking but stems and bulbils all were sucked into a bagging mower. The contents were then dumped into a compost tumbler. Whole neighborhood can tell what's cooking in there!
Martin
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2011 8:18:31 GMT -5
Yes, I was going to their website everyday anxiously awaiting. I even saw they had everything set up the night before. I got to their website around lunchtime the day they turned on. Too late.
They really do have a wonderful variety of garlic, but I certainly understand where their priorities have to be right now.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2011 1:28:38 GMT -5
From a bulbil the first year, planted a clove the second season but not til January, which was an experiment grown in a big plastic compost piece I found floating in the water, filled with light fertile soil and this is the result below. This is what I got! There are few even bigger but you can see that the size is just fine, started by bulbil less than two seasons ago!
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Post by daylilydude on Aug 30, 2011 6:09:42 GMT -5
WOW!! great growing gal!
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Post by paquebot on Aug 30, 2011 22:36:57 GMT -5
Decided not to offer my bulbils this year other than to those whom I had previously promised some. There should be plenty of ground for me to plant about 750 of them and that's what I plan on doing. We Grow Garlic may run out of a lot of others quickly but there will be plenty of Martin's! If anyone here wants some bulbils for planting this fall, PM me with a mailing address and I'll eventually get them off to you as soon as I deem them dry enough for mailing.
Martin
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2011 17:10:15 GMT -5
Thank you! It is such a wonderful essential item to grow here! Now today I was harvesting more, as mine is later due to the coolness of the summer. This next pic I took outside out back, it is about 4 inches, but that does not matter, it is the yummy flavor that bursts out of this garlic that is. Oh I will not be planting any bulbils...oh goodness no, all cloves for this girl! As I grew what I need to eat and plant, all of my bulbils are available! I have about 15,000 bulbils available of this variety if anyone is interested? I do sell out every year and have advance orders..still plenty for now! Another January planted Clove experimental Garlic! This is the German Purple Striped hardneck. I did have the wrapper coming off a bit so I went ahead and let it come off for the pic, all the rest are of course staying clothed to dry!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2011 12:13:05 GMT -5
I only grow hard neck garlic, what I know is based on direct experience only. The last citation of Diggin' from Boundary Garlic sounds to be both some hard earned experience and a good shot of science. .........Mike and I have the planting down to where we can easily plant 5,000 cloves per day and we did that in 5 days last fall. I know that we can do better if we change just one part of the system. Harvesting is the same rate. Began last Monday and last plants out of the ground Friday afternoon. Where the garlic had been was disked twice on Saturday morning to disrupt any weeds and the same will be done in another month. ........ Martin My back hurts just thinking about planting 5000 cloves per day. What equipment do you use for that? Thanks for sharing!
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