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Post by txdirtdog on Feb 8, 2013 0:16:34 GMT -5
Well, since we've been talking about traits and species of peppers, Laura suggested we put a sticky to what we know. We'll add to the sticky as pertinent information develops. I will lift ideas out of the thread and add to this first post as they are put forth. I will paraphrase the poster in most instances and give credit to the poster who put forth the thought. If I give an incorrect gist by paraphrasing, please let me know so I can edit it for accuracy. Here's what has been put forth as of now:
Pungency (heat) trait tends to dominate in a cross. Curtesy of LinFl
Natural crossing rate in peppers is estimated at 35%. Curtesy of Stratcat
Bag both the receiving flower and the donor flower before the flower opens to avoid pollen contamination. Curtesy of Timothy T
High heat and humidity can affect pollen viability. Once the heat and humidity set in during late spring or summer, pollen is best obtained in mid to late morning and early evening hours when heat and humidity are lower. Working with flowers on the north side of plants may keep the heat buildup in bagging flowers to a minimum. Curtesy of Timothy T
Elongated or bullshorn shape tends to dominate in a cross. Curtesy of Timothy T
Out of the 5 main species it is generally agreed amongst the genetic gurus and serious breeders that these are the crossing tendencies between the species although there have been a few exceptions:
Annuum: crosses readily with other Annum and Chinense, sporadically with Baccatum and Frutescens Baccutum: crosses readily with other Baccutum, sporadically with Annuum, Chinense, and Frutescens Chinense: crosses readily with other Chinense and Annuum, sporadically with Baccatum and Frutescens Frutescens: crosses readily with other Fructescens, sporadically with Annuum, Baccatum, Chinense Pubescens: only cross with other Pubescens!
Sporadic = it can be done but not easily! Curtesy of Timothy T
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Post by timothyt on Feb 8, 2013 6:31:57 GMT -5
Hey TDD!
Should be fun to see how much aggreement there is amongst pepper growers for the information provided above.
I certainly agree with LinFl about the heat trait and that has been my experience.
I also agree with what Stratcat shared from his extension agent. My range of natural crossing tends to be a bit higher, especially with the annuums. But I have lots of buzzzing friends and plant very close together. The only time my crossing rate seems to be less is when I'm trying to make a specific cross myself!
The information I provided to you comes from Dave Dewitt's chart at Peppermania.com, The Hot Pepper forum, quite a few other sources, and a wee bit from my own experiences.
I look forward to hearing other good folks' thoughts!
TimothyT
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Post by pepperhead212 on Feb 8, 2013 11:42:55 GMT -5
This is why I have always told people not to save seeds, unless they have isolated the plant or the flower - even if they are only growing one type, somebody nearby may have peppers growing, and insects can travel! And most of what we grow are chinense and annuum, which cross the most readily.
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Post by ladymarmalade on Feb 11, 2013 9:27:42 GMT -5
What if you don't want to cross a pepper? Last year I saved seed from only one plant(ghost) because it was planted in a pot, well away from the main garden where the rest of the peppers were. Is it a simple matter of bagging the blossoms like you do with tomatoes?
I've really been getting into hotter peppers, and I'd love to save my own seeds, because they're a bit pricey sometimes!
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Post by txdirtdog on Feb 11, 2013 9:53:58 GMT -5
What if you don't want to cross a pepper? Last year I saved seed from only one plant(ghost) because it was planted in a pot, well away from the main garden where the rest of the peppers were. Is it a simple matter of bagging the blossoms like you do with tomatoes? I've really been getting into hotter peppers, and I'd love to save my own seeds, because they're a bit pricey sometimes! That's what I did Ladymarmalade. I have read other folks say they grew sweet peppers in front of the house and hot peppers in the back and still ended up with crosses. If an insect like a bee can get to the flower, they could have pollen from another pepper plant attached from another location. The bag keeps the insects out and the peppers I bagged turned out to be self-fertile. I'm not sure if all species of peppers are self-fertile, but I suspect they are. Maybe someone who is sure can chime in to confirm.
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Post by Laura_in_FL on Feb 11, 2013 11:00:36 GMT -5
I did a search on it, and it appears that all peppers are self-fertile. Also I know people produce peppers indoors in winter, and pollinate the flowers by buzzing them with an electric toothbrush or razor. That would only work with self-fertile flowers.
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Post by ladymarmalade on Feb 11, 2013 11:40:58 GMT -5
I did a search on it, and it appears that all peppers are self-fertile. Also I know people produce peppers indoors in winter, and pollinate the flowers by buzzing them with an electric toothbrush or razor. That would only work with self-fertile flowers. Oh my gosh, I don't know why it didn't occur to me that I could use the toothbrush on the pepper plants too!! I'm going to have to bag the blossoms and buzz them. My last pepper seed order cost me a buck a seed due to the super-hots. I feel silly paying that when I can get dozens of seed in one pod. I'm more concerned about keeping the plants as true as possible, versus crossing with the sweets. They'd all get used in the end.
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Post by timothyt on Feb 12, 2013 7:19:13 GMT -5
Hey Good Folks!
If I want pure seeds, I definitely bag the blossoms. I use different sizes of organza bags or pantyhose to bag depending on whether I'm going for single blossom, cluster, or whole branch. I have found that during the high heat and humidity times I try to bag North side or shady side blossoms as heat builds up in the bag and can lower polination. And Yup, I buzz or finger thump the stems or at least gently shake the plant to release the pollen once a day. Pretty much same as maters, but I start earlier in the blossom opening cycle--before they are even partially open. So sometimes I'm "buzzing and bagging" for 4-6 days. And don't forget to mark the bagged fruit that forms with string, yarn, or something losely around the stem so you can remember which one was bagged.
I have found that in my neck of the woods that the best time of day to buzz, thump, or shake to release pollen varies with heat and humidity. Anytime between 9am-4pm works fairly well during the cooler parts of the year, but as heat and humidity rise, I find that between 9am-11am works best and then wait until later afternoon when humidity has gone down to try again.
I do know of pepper growers that use a little dab of super glue on the tip of the blossom petals right before it opens to keep it closed so it will self polinate, but I prefer bagging.
Another big mistake that I made when I started making intentional crosses was not to bag the male or donor blossoms as well as the emasculated female blossom!!! Told ya that I be a wee bit slow sometimes! <grin>
Anywho, hope some of this makes sense and is helpful. And I'm always open to learning better ways and also to being shown that I'm off base.
Thanks,
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Post by txdirtdog on Feb 12, 2013 9:40:02 GMT -5
Hehe,
Timothy, one of my last thoughts last night before slumber was: "I bet it would be a good idea to bag a donor blossom as well as the female receiver blossom, so that no insects have left other pollen on the donor." And then this morning - Walla! the idea is confirmed. Too funny.
As we get more info added, I will lift the fact or idea and add it to the first post in the thread so it is as condensed as possible.
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Post by hairymooseknuckles on Jan 20, 2019 22:42:26 GMT -5
pepperhead212, I thought you might enjoy this video. I watch this fellow quite a bit.
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Post by pepperhead212 on Jan 22, 2019 23:19:29 GMT -5
I've never thought about crossing peppers. I've only thought about "uncrossing", or trying to stabilize seeds saved from hybrids!
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