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Post by horsea on Jun 20, 2013 13:58:03 GMT -5
Okay, what form of calcium do you pepper enthusiasts use on your plants? I have some calcium carbonate powder I bought as a food supplement for my chickens, but it occurred to me to mix some with vinegar, and when it stops fizzing, the liquid would be a highly available-to-plants fertilizer. What do you think. Tk. you.
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Deleted
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Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2013 16:34:21 GMT -5
I blend in some lime between seasons, about a quart jar full per 100 square feet. Check your pH first; my soil's fairly acidic, so I can get away with it. Actually I'm pretty sure that dose would be safe for anyone, as long as you're adding in organic material regularly. Eggshells also go in the garden year round, whenever I have them.
MB
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Post by kctomato on Jun 20, 2013 16:54:11 GMT -5
Calcium nitrate is going to be one of the most available forms.
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Post by daylilydude on Jun 21, 2013 5:47:13 GMT -5
Or just use the chicken poo... makes a great fertilizer.
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Post by gixxerific on Jun 21, 2013 6:28:21 GMT -5
Get a soil test first. Do you really need it? Ask anyone around here about your lawn problem and immediately they go to "add a BUNCH of lime". Funny thing is in our heavy clay soil there is a ton of calcium. The thing is to keep it all in moderation, if you go all willy nilly adding a ton of ferts all the time you can make a problem. Too much of certain nutrients can lock up other nutrients. It all about balance. The above is true but feel free to igonore it and go about your business. Most people do. Get a soil test!
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Post by kctomato on Jun 21, 2013 8:27:51 GMT -5
I tried to find the specific link and could not find it quickly, but there is a very good webpage about calcium defn and blossom end rot. It goes into detail about why, how and when even having enough calcium (from a soil test and/or adding lime) may not be enough. It is a multifactoral issue whereas the state of the plant + environmental conditions + the type of calcium and potential other factors effect how calcium will be taken up and moved around in the plant.
The point to it is, one can have enough in the soil but still have a calcium problem in the plant. One of the better ways to deal with it is calcium nitrate because it is a form that can easily be taken up by the plant and moved around to where it's needed. It also mentioned that foliar applied calcium was not effective and applications of calcium should be done by the roots.
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Post by gixxerific on Jun 21, 2013 10:17:44 GMT -5
Calcium deficiencies (or lack of soluable,usable calcium) are caused by many things usually not low levels of calcium. Over fertilizing can be a factor especially phosphorous but over use of Nitrogen and potasium can do the same. which will lock up calcium. A low pH will do the same thing. The more common factor in BER would be uneven watering, thus not allowing the calcium to be taken up through the plant by transporation.
Calcium nitrate is your best bet as KC stated if you have to add anything.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2013 10:32:57 GMT -5
Lime is about as overprescribed as ritalin. There are cases where the soil is truly deficient; my garden was one. I used to get BER in tomatoes, peppers, watermelon, squash, and pretty much anything else capable of getting it, and since I've started liming I only see it in extremely susceptible varieties like San Marzano. But like Gix said, it is often prescribed when deficiency is not the true issue. He's right, a soil test will go a long way toward telling you what all you need.
A year's worth of eggshells from one kitchen is enough for a couple of small beds, though it's definitely a slower releasing form. Mom-in-law plants a half dozen tomatoes in an old tractor tire every year, and that's where her eggshells go year round.
MB
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Post by horsea on Jun 22, 2013 12:22:25 GMT -5
Thank you all very much for your comments and advice. One thing, though: the experts are always telling us that uneven watering can be a cause of BER. Well, I could never understand how we can control rain...
I suspect that plenty of compost from a variety of sources (kitchen waste/manure/general yard org. matter) would do the trick. I guess I was panicking because I've got these Hungarian peppers I'm anxious to remain healthy; plus 2 yr. ago my Golden Sunray got really bad BER. Yet the other varieties didn't! Perhaps there's an issue of susceptibility? What's been your own experience?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2013 13:02:40 GMT -5
Plenty of organic material in the soil and mulched around plants will help regulate moisture. With tomatoes, you can also pluck lower leaves and branches and plant as deep as possible (I bury all but the top crown) to encourage a deep root system.
When I got BER in peppers, it was mostly on bells and other larger varieties, but I can't remember any particular variety being more or less susceptible, and my pepper experience is limited to a couple dozen varieties anyway.
Here's a really good article from UCDavis on the causes and controls of BER: 86509.pdf (698.24 KB) BTW, a quick search yields plenty of hits for a tomato named Golden Sunray, but not a pepper. If there's a pepper by that name too, what does it look like? If it's the tomato, then yes, some varieties are more susceptible than others, although it's usually the long skinny Roma types that have the most trouble.
MB
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Post by horsea on Jun 23, 2013 1:45:17 GMT -5
Plenty of organic material in the soil and mulched around plants will help regulate moisture. With tomatoes, you can also pluck lower leaves and branches and plant as deep as possible (I bury all but the top crown) to encourage a deep root system. When I got BER in peppers, it was mostly on bells and other larger varieties, but I can't remember any particular variety being more or less susceptible, and my pepper experience is limited to a couple dozen varieties anyway. Here's a really good article from UCDavis on the causes and controls of BER:
BTW, a quick search yields plenty of hits for a tomato named Golden Sunray, but not a pepper. If there's a pepper by that name too, what does it look like? If it's the tomato, then yes, some varieties are more susceptible than others, although it's usually the long skinny Roma types that have the most trouble. MB #1. Tks for link to article from UC Davis. #2. Golden Sunray is indeed a tomato. I should've specified. And a regular beauty, too. The only other tom. of mine that got BER was Thessaloniki.
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swamper
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Post by swamper on Jun 23, 2013 14:47:15 GMT -5
If you pH is on the high side you could add some gypsum, which is calcium sulfate, if you want to use a slower release option. A pH test, or a more detailed test would be the way to go. There are as many different answers to this question as there are soil types and microclimates.
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Post by horsea on Jun 24, 2013 10:42:59 GMT -5
If you pH is on the high side you could add some gypsum, which is calcium sulfate, if you want to use a slower release option. A pH test, or a more detailed test would be the way to go. There are as many different answers to this question as there are soil types and microclimates. pH is real high here! I did have my soil tested by a lab a few years ago. Since that time, I've added quite a bit of kitchen-waste-and-chicken-manure-based organic matter, so I suspect that might have brought the pH down - but not that much. These things are very, very slow! Thanks for helping out!
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Post by gixxerific on Jun 26, 2013 17:07:34 GMT -5
It is very hard to change the pH of native soil without soil either being removed, added or both. If you bring it down one point you will be lucky and that may entail large amounts of amendments.
You can use the quick change methods but the only last so long. Best thing to do is add compost compost and more compost.
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Post by horsea on Sept 8, 2013 23:36:51 GMT -5
It is very hard to change the pH of native soil without soil either being removed, added or both. If you bring it down one point you will be lucky and that may entail large amounts of amendments. You can use the quick change methods but the only last so long. Best thing to do is add compost compost and more compost. Your comment about adding lots of compost. Everybody says that, and I don't disagree. WHAT is it about compost that solves so many problems in the garden? I can't believe that a bit of compost is reducing our high pH here...
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Post by gixxerific on Nov 3, 2013 8:36:17 GMT -5
Composted materials naturally balance out to a an even ph. So that will help with balancing out your garden. Again you will have to keep adding after a while you will see the difference though don't expect huge changes. You will get the benefit at right away from all the nutriants in the compost.
Sorry it took so long to get back. I have been away for a while.
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Post by paulf on Nov 3, 2013 9:20:54 GMT -5
Soil pH is a tricky thing to change. No matter what is done to adjust it, after a couple of years of not continuing with the adjustments, soil tends to return to its "normal" state. The pH in my garden is around the 8.2 range and it needs an attitude adjustment of sulfur every two years to keep things under 8. Compost helps with nutrient levels which helps grow crops despite the pH. I have just had to learn how my soil is and wants to be.
Gix is correct: have your soil tested by a reputable soils lab for the true picture and follow their recommendations.
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Post by horsea on Nov 4, 2013 11:50:17 GMT -5
Your comments are most interesting and informative for me. I wanted to branch off slightly about composting here. Every book, article & 'expert' I've ever heard tells us to put only completed compost in our growing beds. I never do; I rarely have enough. I put kitchen slops, deer & chicken manure, and you-name-it in the soil and before I know it, it's gone. I just make sure the soil stays moist. According to conventional wisdom, the rotting action should be sucking the life out of my plants and they should all be keeling over. Well, this isn't happening. Any thoughts?
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tomato
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Post by tomato on Nov 4, 2013 21:17:21 GMT -5
Horse, you are adding enough nitrogen to support breakdown of the compostable material and/or you have a healthy population of earthworms. Either one will work. Earthworms produce acids that digest brown materials very efficiently.
One item not noted above but that is a useful trick to know is that moisture stress is one of the risk factors for BER. In extreme heat, plants can be in moisture stress even if plenty of water is in the soil. They simply can't translocate it fast enough. One way to address this is to use shade cloth to reduce leaf temperatures. This should be used with discretion, it is most useful in hot dry climates, less so where daily temperatures rarely go above 90F or where rainfall is abundant.
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Post by horsea on Nov 5, 2013 1:16:15 GMT -5
Tks for advice re B.E. Rot. Re temperatures that tomatoes may not like - well, certain varieties get burnt even though I don't overprune leaves! Even when temps are maybe only 85 or so. I guess we have to play it by ear, huh. We have such long, long, sunny, sometimes v. hot days here on the prairies. With or without rain. Sometimes it is like the Amazon jungle here and everything grows so crazily I can't recognize the garden one day from the next. Seriously. Weeds, too, of course.
Yes, my soil has so many earthworms it's scary.
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