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Post by ladymarmalade on Oct 28, 2017 6:39:20 GMT -5
Okay, so this is more like a series of questions about soil testing.
Do you do it? Have you done it? Is it worth it? Home test or Other?
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Post by paquebot on Oct 28, 2017 9:15:23 GMT -5
Have used both commercial and home when involved in a community garden. Never used commercial at home where there is an excess of everything as proved by the kits. It isn't worth it or true in small hobby gardens where just a 5-gallon pail of compost or kitchen scraps will throw it all out of whack.
Martin
The truth is more important than the facts.
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Post by meandtk on Oct 28, 2017 10:11:24 GMT -5
I have not yer, but have home kits to use before spring.
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Post by september on Oct 28, 2017 11:03:38 GMT -5
My testing has been minimal.
Our original garden spot had so much pale clay that you could make pots out of it! We tilled in as much horse manure and stable bedding straw as we could each year while we had still had horses. We sent in soil tests to the university extension service a couple of years apart early on, and they came back fine, except for the recommendation for more organic matter, which we already knew.
After the horses were gone, I converted that garden site to raised beds, mixing a purchased dump truck load of black dirt with the existing clay soil. The clay content of the beds still varies, depending on how close they were to the dirt pile! But over the years, the organic content of the soil has improved vastly over what we started out with.
I started a second set of raised beds in the former horse winter corral area, (which I call my wood's garden) that is uphill from the clay garden, and is a pure sand base, but full of organic matter from the horse's time there, as well as being a formerly forested area with rotting logs and leaf litter stomped in by them. I don't think we ever had that soil tested, as it was so rich everything grew well there without supplements for a few years.
It would be interesting to see some soil test results now, but because the raised beds have such individual composition, some being sandier (even next to each other) and depending on which crops (carrots) get the sandier sections, and which ones get richer additives (lettuce) it wouldn't make sense to mix samples together for testing because the soil never gets tilled together. It would be too expensive to test each bed, I have 14 beds in the front garden and 17 in the woods garden.
So, as long as I can grow enough various vegetables to eat fresh as well as freeze for winter, I just keep adding as much organic matter as I can - forest leaves mostly, and I buy a dump truck load of rotted manure from a farmer every couple of years to add before planting, and use various granular and liquid fertilizers as supplements.
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Post by daylilydude on Oct 28, 2017 17:30:31 GMT -5
Well I hadn't tested much as far as the in-ground garden grows... but i'm going with the self watering buckets next season so i'm thinking on one of the home kits, but i'm not sure as of yet.
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Post by paulf on Oct 28, 2017 22:40:08 GMT -5
Okay, so this is more like a series of questions about soil testing. Do you do it? Have you done it? Is it worth it? Home test or Other? Absolutely! My garden gets tested every other or every third year. Always by a qualified soil testing lab. The real equipment used by professional labs cost several thousands of dollars and the tests are done by trained personnel. Home kits are useless in my opinion.
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Post by pepperhead212 on Oct 28, 2017 23:28:08 GMT -5
I test mine every 3 or 4 years, using www.soiltest.uconn.edu/sampling.php Many universities offer this service. I agree with paulf, that the home kits are useless, except maybe to test pH. Here's a sample of the ones I got this season. Nothing next to the first four elements, as it is a bar code, that doesn't copy, but it tells you if the elements are Below Optimum, Optimum, Above Optimum, or Excessive. Mine were all Above optimum, or excessive, but this isn't really bad, as most of it is in organic form - another test you can get done, but it has always been high for me in the past. Testing the soiless mix in pots is another type of testing, and some places charge much more for it, though at this one it is the same. I never test that, however. Nutrients Extracted From Your Soil (Modified Morgan) Calcium Magnesium Potassium Phosphorus > 4000 lbs/acre > 500 lbs/acre 464 lbs/acre 156 lbs/acre * Excessive only defined for Phosphorus (>40 lbs/acre) Soil pH (1:1, H2O) 6.8 Buffered pH (Mod. Mehlich) 6.6 Est. Cation Exch. Capacity 15.8 (cmole+/100g) Element ppm Soil Range Boron (B) 1.0 0.1 - 2.0 Copper (Cu) 0.5 0.3 - 0.8 Iron (Fe) 2.7 1.0 - 40.0 Manganese (Mn) 5.0 3.0 - 20.0 Zinc (Zn) 14.4 0.1 - 70.0 Sulfur (S) 47.6 10 - 100 Aluminum (Al) 6.2 10 - 300 Est. Total Lead (Pb) low Base Saturation % Suggested Potassium 4 2.0 - 7.0 Magnesium 16 10 - 30 Calcium 80 40 - 50 Limestone & Fertilizer Recommendations for Home Vegetable (mixed) Limestone (Target pH of 6.6) 0 lbs And here is where they tell you the recommendations for the different fertilizers, and amounts. All three of mine were for small amounts of N, and one had a small amount of K needed, but when I figured in the amount they recommended for 1,000 sq ft, reduced to area of the bed I was testing (80 sq ft), it was less than 3/4 c of sol/po/mag - 0-0-22! Comments:LIMESTONE: No limestone is necessary FERTILIZER: Soil test levels for both PHOSPHORUS and POTASSIUM are AT OR ABOVE OPTIMUM. Only a source of nitrogen is necessary this year. Before planting incorporate 2 lbs of Nitrogen per 1000 sq ft. One pound of Nitrogen can be supplied by 8.3 lbs of bloodmeal (12-0-0) or 11 lbs. of corn gluten (9-0-0) or 2.2 lbs of urea (46-0-0). If plants develop pale green to yellow color, sidedress with 1 lb of 10-6-4 or 10-10-10 per 100 feet of row in late June or early July. Apply next to the row about 6 inches from plants avoiding contact with the foliage to prevent burning. See the SUGGESTED FERTILIZER PRACTICES FOR VEGETABLES and HERBS fact sheet for instructions on how and when to add fertilizer If you have questions about this report or fertilizer recommendations, contact the UConn Soil Nutrient Analysis Lab at (860) 486- 4274 or email soiltest@uconn.edu. If you have questions about any other plant, pest or disease problems, contact the UConn HOME and GARDEN EDUCATION CENTER, Dept. of Plant Science and Landscape Architecture. Phone: (877) 486-6271; email:ladybug@uconn.edu; website:www.ladybug.uconn.edu.
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Post by ladymarmalade on Oct 29, 2017 8:09:02 GMT -5
Wow, those are really detailed results! I have not done a soil test of any kind yet, though I do think about it for my community garden. I have thought about doing it at home, but we homeschool and have science supplies all over the place. I have seriously thought that if I really went through everything, I bet I could come up with a good many materials needed without having to buy a test kit. We have so many different test strips that measure different things! But, I haven't really had any growing issues yet that has led me to feel testing is necessary. I like that report pepperhead212 shared though, it would be neat to see what my garden looks like on paper like that.
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Post by paulf on Oct 29, 2017 8:37:25 GMT -5
Pepperhead12, that is a real soil test. Thank you for sharing. As you say, most university extension services have soil testing labs. Nebraska eliminated their lab many years ago because of the expense but there are several private labs to choose from. The expense is small, around $10. My opinion is to perform the test in the fall after the growing season is finished. That way a gardener can see the soil condition and have enough time to prepare for the next growing season.
Ladymarmalade, even if you think things are doing fine, a cheap, professional soil test can alert you to potential problems. You may be surprised at what you discover. I thought my situation would be better if I added lots of organic material, but a more serious situation became evident...very high pH and very low nitrogen that required elemental sulphur and ammonium sulphate and nitrogen to get everything into balance so the nutrients that were in the soil could be released for better plant health.
You most likely are in fine shape, but like you say, it would be nice to know for sure. In my role in the local area as a Master Gardener with folks asking my advise (whether I know anything is up to speculation) my first recommendation is to do a soil test. Then we can discuss solutions.
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Post by paquebot on Oct 29, 2017 22:29:15 GMT -5
I have to have my old-fashioned opinion about soil testing. Being heavy into composting, it's a simple matter of knowing what one is putting into the soil. If that is known, then one doesn't need a fancy laboratory to confirm it. The local community gardens had the soil tested and showed very high in phosphorus and couldn't figure out why. 351 pickup loads of shredded leaves over 5-year period helped that. Potassium was also good. Just needed some nitrogen.
Martin
The truth is more important than the facts.
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Post by daylilydude on Nov 9, 2017 4:59:21 GMT -5
Is there an optimum time of year for doing a soil test?
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Post by paulf on Nov 9, 2017 9:24:30 GMT -5
Most of the experts are saying fall after the current growing season is done is best. This gives a good indicator of soil condition and what needs to be replenished for the next season. Fall is also the time to add whatever needs to be added for a healthy, balanced soil and the time needed for the additions to become effective.
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Post by daylilydude on Jan 19, 2018 6:57:24 GMT -5
Laura_in_FL had a great question about garden minerals so I thought this question needed a little bump?
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poppopt
Junior Member
Posts: 89
Joined: May 2017
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Post by poppopt on Jan 19, 2018 8:59:40 GMT -5
Yes, have done it, and yes, I think it's worth it. I used A&L Eastern Labs for mine. It was like $15 for a pretty comprehensive test including CEC and lots of other info to really tell you where you're starting from.
Had a garden area to work with a few years ago that had wood ashes dumped on it regularly for quite a few years. Had I not tested, I wouldn't have known a bunch of stuff, including a soil pH of over 8.1 when the common wisdom of the area said, "apply lime".
It's always good to know where you're starting from.
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Post by brownrexx on Jan 19, 2018 9:43:31 GMT -5
Soil testing is a subject that I feel quite strongly about. I always say that adding fertilizers to your soil without a soil test is like salting your food before you taste it. How do you really know what you need?
I have my soil tested annually by the PA State Ag Lab. It does not need to be tested that often but I like seeing the numbers and the basic test only costs $9 plus an additional $5 for the % organic matter. We would spend more than this for a pizza so I feel that it is a worthwhile investment.
I spent 20 years working as chemist for a major pharmaceutical company so believe me when I tell you that there is no comparison between home test kits and professional testing equipment. A home test kit costs about $10 and a professional test costs about the same so why not get a "real" test done?
pH is a very important component of soil chemistry. If your pH is too high or too low, some nutrients become unavailable to the plant roots no matter how much you add.
A home soil test kit may give you an idea of whether your soil is acidic or alkaline but a proper pH value is more important and they are notoriously unreliable with this. Real pH meters are over $1000 and are calibrated every few hours to maintain their accuracy. We also changed the $100 probe on ours in the lab every few months. A little tube with liquid that changes colors in a home test kit can not possibly compare to this degree of accuracy.
I took a picture of one of my soil test reports to show you the type of data that I get for $14 plus postage to mail them my soil. You can click on the picture to see it better.
As you can see my pH is 6.9 so if I listened to my neighbors and added lime like they do every year I would be raising my pH which I really do not want to do. Secondly if I added a balanced fertilizer with N-P-K it would also be the wrong thing to do because P an K are already in excess in my soil. Nitrogen is very volatile and can be added every year but I have no need for P or K.
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Post by paulf on Jan 19, 2018 10:36:54 GMT -5
Brownrexx say: As you can see my pH is 6.9
If only I could ever get pH close to that mark. And you have hit the nail on the head concerning "real" soil tests. My opinion is that the home style testing kits are a true waste of both money and time. I will be doing a nitrate level next time just to see where the N levels are and also a trace mineral test fi it isn't too expensive thanks to the thread about azomite.
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Post by brownrexx on Jan 19, 2018 11:16:56 GMT -5
paulf, my pH has been as high as 7.5 and I have added sulfur to bring it down. My soil testing lab will not test for Nitrogen because it is so volatile they just recommend that everyone add Nitrogen. Actually the % organic matter test will give you a good idea of where you stand with N since it is 50% carbon and 5% Nitrogen. Most gardens in my county are 4% OM but mine is consistently over 8%. Last year I spoke with the director of the lab and he recommended side dressing with blood meal or feather meal for Nitrogen since I am an organic gardener and do not use the synthetics. HOWEVER I did use some blood meal last year and it attracted some critter, probably a skunk, to dig it up so be careful with that because they can dig up seedlings if they smell blood meal. I may try corn gluten meal this year. It is 9-0-0 but you have to be careful with that also because it will prevent seeds from germinating so be careful where you use it.
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