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Post by daylilydude on Jan 19, 2018 7:12:29 GMT -5
With all this crossing/breeding of vegetables and fruit to make them bigger/tastier/faster growing and all, do you think it might be hurting the nutrient value of them... you hear everyone doing the crossing/breeding is looking to improve flavor or size, color, but none of them are taking in the fact that it might be robbing the nutrients that we really need to have a healthier lifestyle... Your thoughts??
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Post by pepperhead212 on Jan 19, 2018 8:26:01 GMT -5
I don't know if any tests have been done on hybrids, to see if nutrients were being compromised. But think of it this way - a hybrid could just as easily have more of a given nutrient, just like they are often larger. Hybrids aren't always bad.
However, we know that some hybrid tomatoes, bred for shipping, have lost considerable flavor.
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Post by brownrexx on Jan 19, 2018 16:54:38 GMT -5
I agree that some hybrids are actually better than some heirlooms due to their disease resistance but some hybrids are bred for things like tougher skins for shipping and possibly the genes for flavor or even some of the valuable nutrients are missing in the crosses with the most desirable skin characteristics.
This is why winter tomatoes from the supermarket have no flavor. It's not because they are shipped longer distances or stored longer. They are genetically different than the fragile but delicious ones that we grow at home. They would never survive shipping in large quantities. They are too fragile and the shippers would lose too much money on damaged product.
Unfortunately they got tomatoes that ship better but taste worse.
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Post by octave1 on Jan 19, 2018 17:03:39 GMT -5
I would think that flavor depends mostly on the kind of soil a vegetable is growing in. Volcanic soil will give you the best tasting produce, and possibly, the most nutritious. Poor soil will yield substandard vegetables, unless they were bred to thrive in that kind of soil. So all in all I don't think that cross breeding and hybridizing is a negative thing. Of course if I were a biologist I would be able to come up with an explanation and not just an opinion.
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Post by spacecase0 on Jan 19, 2018 17:08:11 GMT -5
often you can see the nutrients in the color, and you can taste them. so if you breed for color and flavor you should be doing pretty well.
the only worry I have is when people breed so insects do not eat the plants, sometimes that means that they are toxic, and you get that toxic if you eat them.
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Post by brownrexx on Jan 19, 2018 18:07:28 GMT -5
I agree that soil type makes a world of difference in the taste of vegetables however there are definitely genes for things like sugar content and acidity which are major components of flavor in tomatoes.
Cross breeding can accidently eliminate certain desirable genes.
A good example that many people might be familiar with it sweet corn. It is well known that if you grow sweet corn, which contains genes for enhancing the sweetness, close to field corn then you may end up with corn that does not taste as sweet because of cross pollination. In other words you are crossing a sweet corn with a non sweet corn and the results show that it does make a difference.
The same thing may happen when crossing tomatoes or any other vegetable or fruit.
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Post by hairymooseknuckles on Jan 19, 2018 18:48:58 GMT -5
I don't hate hybrids. If you'd look through my seed stash, you would probably think I do. I grow a few hybrids with Sungold being one of them. I also grow Celebrity tomato, but only because my Uncle grew it for years on end. My reasoning for not growing many is because I'm seed saving obsessed.
As for breeding, I leave that up to those that know what their doing. I don't know my butt from a hole in the ground when it comes to breeding.
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Post by paquebot on Jan 19, 2018 23:11:46 GMT -5
I have to laugh at those who don't want anything to do with hybrids. With standard tomatoes, 95% are stabilized hybrids and 5% are mutants. Since each variety varies in the factors which determine nutritional value, it is impossible to rate a hybrid against an OP. They would have to the same variety and that can't happen.
Martin
The truth is more important than the facts.
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Post by Laura_in_FL on Jan 20, 2018 13:50:05 GMT -5
I use both hybrids and OP varieties. The OP varieties I grow include both heirlooms and more recently-bred varieties. I do enjoy seed saving and sharing, which is why I grow more OPs than not. But when a hybrid tastes great and offers superior disease resistance, improved yield, or some other needed characteristic, I am happy to grow it. There are some hybrids out there that have been developed with taste in mind; not just shipping. You just have to look for them. I also have to say that when I grow an heirloom that struggles in my climate and produces little, its taste usually doesn't live up to the hype. Unhealthy plants don't produce tasty food, in my experience. And most of the big name heirlooms were not bred for North Florida conditions! So I am always looking for varieties will thrive, whether OP or hybrid. There are some Florida/Deep South heirlooms, and some active tomato breeders who live in the Deep South. So there are always exciting new (or new-to-me) OP varieties to try.
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Post by brownrexx on Jan 20, 2018 14:15:26 GMT -5
In my opinion flavor is highly dependent on genetics but nutrition is more dependent on soil conditions.
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Post by tomike on Jan 20, 2018 16:57:43 GMT -5
In my opinion flavor is highly dependent on genetics but nutrition is more dependent on soil conditions. Please expand on your theory (opinion) because this appears to say that it can taste bad but be good for you...... I do not disagree in certain cases... However, I would much prefer eating "good" things that score on both fronts....
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Post by brownrexx on Jan 20, 2018 18:06:37 GMT -5
Please expand on your theory (opinion) because this appears to say that it can taste bad but be good for you..
I think that flavor is highly subjective. What one person thinks tastes great does not appeal to another person. I have seen this many times with reviews of tomatoes.
I don't think that anyone can really "taste" vitamins and other nutrients.
For example I LOVE the taste of cake but I do not think that it is highly nutritious. Darn it.
Alternately I do not care for cooked greens and they are very nutritious.
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Post by tomike on Jan 20, 2018 18:17:01 GMT -5
Looks like it can also taste good (or very good) and be BAD for you......
Now, let's get back to the "real world" of tomatoes and peppers and all those "really good" things that we grow....
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Post by Gianna on Jan 21, 2018 0:02:47 GMT -5
With all this crossing/breeding of vegetables and fruit to make them bigger/tastier/faster growing and all, do you think it might be hurting the nutrient value of them... Plants don't make chemicals/nutrients for our benefit, but for their own. They have no clue we exist or intend to eat them. If a plant is bred to be larger or tastier, that is ultimately the result of some genetic change which leads to the expression of the trait selected for via a chemical change. If these are in some way beneficial to humans eating the plant, then nutrient value is increased. If not, not so much. Interesting question, but all we can do is discuss it without the benefit of data.
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Post by coppice on Jan 21, 2018 6:21:01 GMT -5
My opinion is people can breed a tomato to ship well, or be perfumed and tastey. But not both. I don't have a nutritional palate past that.
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