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Post by bluelacedredhead on Dec 19, 2018 7:45:47 GMT -5
Other than seed starting for transplant outdoors, has anyone here had success raising lettuce to maturity indoors?? The recent e coli outbreaks from California along with the price of lettuce already in December ($3.49 for iceberg) has me seriously considering bringing out the lights now! Questions I have so far include how close to the plants do I have to put the lights? How many hours a day to run them for a decent product? What kind of trays? What about growing medium? Do I use seed starter all the way through the growing season and supplement it with fertilizer?? I'm even looking at the Aerogardens. Less room required to grow than a 24" light, but it's the fact that their pods are so expensive and the product is from a Monsanto company Any suggestions welcome.
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Post by brownrexx on Dec 19, 2018 8:22:06 GMT -5
I have tried growing leaf lettuce and spinach indoors without lights and the results were pathetic. They just don't get enough light at this time of year without supplemental light.
I would probably use a light potting mix if I were you. Seed starting mix is not meant for permanent growing like you are doing. The seedlings will need some nutrients.
With grow lights, I hope that yours will probably grow fine. I know what you mean about store lettuce. I miss salads but I don't like buying the store stuff. I don't trust it.
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Post by spike on Dec 19, 2018 8:59:11 GMT -5
bluelacedredhead, GREAT Thread!! I was thinking about doing the same thing myself.
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Post by bluelacedredhead on Dec 19, 2018 9:08:15 GMT -5
spike, There is a thread from last summer about the Aero Garden. It's neat too, just expensive. And pepperhead212 has experience with hydroponics so talk to him if you are considering that. My lights take up a lot of room, but maybe I'll go that route instead. I'll just have to make some adjustments and find a spot near the furnace to grow.
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Post by spike on Dec 19, 2018 9:48:33 GMT -5
bluelacedredhead , Way to cheap to go the Aero route. No clue about hydroponics. BUT I do have grow lights. I can put them on the coffee table up by the pitcher window, by the baseboard heater!! Or I have one for the top of the fridge also! Just never used my lights to do anything but seed starting.
Edit to add: OH Lord Honey I am a hick . . . PICTURE WINDOW >,<
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Post by ladymarmalade on Dec 19, 2018 10:50:52 GMT -5
I grew a mesclun mix indoors one year. I filled a flat with potting mix and then sowed the whole thing with a mesclun mix. The lights were on a timer- 16 hours on, 8 hours off, though the lights were on 24/7 until the seeds had sprouted.
When the lettuces were big enough, I harvested the entire flat at once and we had salad for dinner and that was the end.
It took an insane amount of water to keep them healthy and growing- I have in my notes at one point I poured an entire gallon of water into that flat. Now, in retrospect, I'm sure I could have tweaked the lights more so they weren't on so long and then I also might not have needed as much water, but I definitely had to water every single day.
They grew fine- probably just like they would with an aerogarden, but I haven't done it since. I would love to try it again with a small heading lettuce- maybe this will be the year to try that. We just really don't care so much for mesclun mix in the first place- I like some tooth and crunch to my salad greens and that year I decided I preferred doing some sprouting to add to sandwiches instead of salad greens.
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Post by Laura_in_FL on Dec 19, 2018 16:54:23 GMT -5
I am starting a bunch of lettuce now to plant outdoors. I planted more than I need (as usual!), so I could keep a few inside until maturity and see how they do. They are sitting under a 4' long, 4 bulb T5 HO fixture (with other seedlings) right now. That fixture uses "daylight" 6500K bulbs, which are good for green growth.
I expect to have to water them a lot when they get bigger. Mine are in potting mix.
I will have to experiment and see how big a pot they need to produce a healthy, full-size plant. Right now they are itty bitty seedlings in seed cells. I wouldn't be surprised if a Solo cup provides enough root room (lettuces don't have big roots), as long as each plant has enough space for its leaves to grow up & out.
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Post by Gianna on Dec 19, 2018 19:30:04 GMT -5
I've not had good luck growing lettuce indoors. I did not use lights, just 'full sun' south facing windows. Just not enough light in winter!
IMO, one of the problems with growing something like lettuce indoors is growing enough. How large of a salad do you eat? And now often? Under lights, to grow 'enough' for big salad eaters might take lots of space, and be very expensive. Perhaps using LEDs would solve the expensive electricity problem.
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Post by bluelacedredhead on Dec 19, 2018 22:05:33 GMT -5
Laura_in_FL,I don't know why I said earlier that I have LED lights? Probably thinking too hard about that Aero Garden setup??? Geez I have T4 fluorescents 24" in length. Not as cheap to run as LED but they are great little units. ladymarmalade, Gianna, I wouldn't plant an entire flat at once. There is just the two of us plus my canary to eat it, so I'd likely do a few at a time with plantings every week? That way we would have a constant supply. I prefer leaf lettuce varieties and romaines. The last couple of years I have grown Jester, Speckled, red romaine and a couple of different Oak Loose Leaf types. I saved quite a bit of lettuce seed last year and the year before so I have more than enough to experiment with. spike, Pitcher, LOL. Good one.
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Post by pepperhead212 on Dec 19, 2018 23:50:55 GMT -5
Here was my lettuce on 12-6, so it's quite a bit larger now! This is from the saved seed, and the one in the left rear is the Black Seeded Simpson - planted on the same day, and smaller, but it's starting to catch up now. I'll have to take another photo. The herbs are growing so fast that I have to trim them, even when I don't need them. IMG_20181206_115230287 by pepperhead212, on Flickr
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Post by hairymooseknuckles on Dec 20, 2018 0:12:13 GMT -5
I watch this fellow quite a lot.
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Post by brownrexx on Dec 20, 2018 7:39:27 GMT -5
bluelacedredhead, where did you buy those Sherwood romaine lettuce seeds that you sent me last year? That was the nicest Romaine I have ever grown.
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Post by ladymarmalade on Dec 20, 2018 11:26:53 GMT -5
Laura_in_FL,I don't know why I said earlier that I have LED lights? Probably thinking too hard about that Aero Garden setup??? Geez I have T4 fluorescents 24" in length. Not as cheap to run as LED but they are great little units. ladymarmalade, Gianna, I wouldn't plant an entire flat at once. There is just the two of us plus my canary to eat it, so I'd likely do a few at a time with plantings every week? That way we would have a constant supply. I prefer leaf lettuce varieties and romaines. The last couple of years I have grown Jester, Speckled, red romaine and a couple of different Oak Loose Leaf types. I saved quite a bit of lettuce seed last year and the year before so I have more than enough to experiment with. spike, Pitcher, LOL. Good one. Well, with the mesclun mix, sowing one flat ended up being about enough for one salad for us for dinner. It really wasn't very much once it had sprouted. But if you're going to do heading or bunching lettuce, that will be different of course. Succession planting and maybe a couple of flats/lights to have them going in rotation. Every couple of weeks with a variety of lettuce that is quick to grow could keep you in lettuce for a while. With a controlled environment (unlike outside in the elements) I don't think you have to worry about it being quick to bolt.
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Post by bluelacedredhead on Dec 20, 2018 11:27:54 GMT -5
brownrexx , I don't know where it came from?? I received it in a seed swap last Christmas. I will try to find out. I thought I saw it on an online seed catalogue from the Pacific NW, but not sure?? So far I've tried Gurney, Territorial, Adaptive, Tradewinds and Baker Creek. No luck. I'll go to the organizer or one of the online forums where they advertise the swap and see if I can get the person who ordered it originally from a seed company to give us an answer
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Post by Laura_in_FL on Dec 20, 2018 11:35:14 GMT -5
hairymooseknuckles, thanks for posting those videos! So Solo cups do work fine, at least for leaf lettuce. It looks like he was able to harvest for the first time 5 weeks after transplant. The seedling he transplanted looked to be about 7-10 days from sowing. So ~6-7 weeks from sowing to the initial harvest. And he was getting enough lettuce for a one-person salad every 10-14 days per plant. So if you want to eat a salad every day - or have salad for two people about every other day - you would need to keep 10-14 plants going. __________________________________________________ I do wonder whether a Solo cup would support a leaf lettuce all the way to mature size? Lettuce grows faster as the plant gets bigger (more leaf area for photosynthesis), at least until the plant gets close to its maximum size. So I wonder if you would average more lettuce per day if you let the plants go 3 or even 4 weeks between harvests? But you would also need more space under the lights for full-size plants. That might be worth an an experiment, though, for those with the space and inclination. ______________________________________________ Since Romaine has a vertical growth habit, it wouldn't take as much shelf space under lights as leaf lettuce - you could fit more plants under a single light fixture. However, I have never tried Romaine as a cut and come again lettuce. Does it tolerate being harvested repeatedly the way leaf lettuce does? Also, you would need to be able to raise your lights higher to stay above the plants. That may not be a problem in some setups, but in my case I'm limited in how much I can raise my lights. Using a squatter pot instead of a tall container like a Solo cup would save a couple of inches, and make the plants less top-heavy and less likely to tip. Hrmmm...I have some Romaines approaching harvest size outside. I should measure how tall they are above the soil line and see if the plants would fit under my lights in a reasonably-sized pot.
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Post by Laura_in_FL on Dec 20, 2018 12:02:43 GMT -5
ladymarmalade , I did some quick & dirty math based on how often he harvested in those videos and how much he got each time. I also estimated in my head the space those plants needed by the time they were harvest size. I agree that if you want to harvest a daily salad for one person you would have to maintain two full flats of lettuce. (That is for leaf lettuce. Slower-growing lettuces would need more plants & thus more space.) In terms of fluorescent lights, that's two 2' lights or one 4' light. Or LED grow lights that properly light the same growing area. I also think that you're right about the lettuce not bolting quickly indoors. Isn't it heat, water stress, or other stress that causes lettuce to bolt? You should have stable temperatures, consistent lighting, consistent nutrition, and consistent moisture indoors. And no slugs - it should be lettuce paradise! I'd guess that the lettuce will eventually bolt due to age or the stress of being harvested repeatedly. But I can't think of any reason the plants should bolt young, as long as it's not too hot under the lights. EDIT: But I will have to try it to see if my assumptions and calculations hold up to the real world!
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Post by bluelacedredhead on Dec 20, 2018 21:31:46 GMT -5
Laura_in_FL, No slugs, LOL, that makes it all worthwhile! Did you notice the brownrexx, loves the Sherwood lettuce I sent her? I never had a chance to try it. I'm not sure if it was slugs or the rabbit that has been visiting this year. One day it was there, and the next it was gone; the lettuce that is.
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Post by bluelacedredhead on Dec 20, 2018 21:35:12 GMT -5
Thanks for the pics pepperhead212, and hairymooseknuckles, I'll take a closer look tomorrow at my seeds and how I think I'm going to raise the lettuces indoors. I looked at lettuce in the grocery store today and I'm not paying $3.99 for a head of iceberg that is no larger than a softball. I can certainly raise better than that!
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Post by hairymooseknuckles on Dec 20, 2018 22:03:01 GMT -5
Thanks for the pics pepperhead212 , and hairymooseknuckles , I'll take a closer look tomorrow at my seeds and how I think I'm going to raise the lettuces indoors. I looked at lettuce in the grocery store today and I'm not paying $3.99 for a head of iceberg that is no larger than a softball. I can certainly raise better than that! Oh dear, that's expensive! Iceberg isn't even particularly nutritious. Here's something else I just thought about. I realize it isn't lettuce, but last year pepperhead212 sent me seeds for Komatsuma and Semposai. That stuff is very green and nutritious. It's also very easy to grow. I'm not much of a salad person, but I would think you could use it as salad material. It would be similar to spinach salad. I used it to replace mustard and collards and it was was very good eating. You might check out my garden thread to see what it looks like.
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Post by bluelacedredhead on Dec 20, 2018 22:23:57 GMT -5
I used to grow a lot of Asian Greens in the coldframe on the farm. Never thought of raising them indoors. Thanks for the suggestion, Anthony.
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Post by september on Dec 20, 2018 23:28:44 GMT -5
Thanks for the pics pepperhead212 , and hairymooseknuckles , I'll take a closer look tomorrow at my seeds and how I think I'm going to raise the lettuces indoors. I looked at lettuce in the grocery store today and I'm not paying $3.99 for a head of iceberg that is no larger than a softball. I can certainly raise better than that! One of the stores here had a nice head of iceberg lettuce for $4.99 last week during the last romaine scare. No way am I going to pay that! When lettuce goes too high or does not look very good, I buy cabbage and shred finely and use it like lettuce in salads. A lot more nutritious and when mixed with other salad fixings and dressing, it's a good substitute for us in a tossed salad. Too bad cabbage won't work on a BLT!
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Post by pepperhead212 on Dec 21, 2018 0:12:46 GMT -5
september, I would try cabbage on a BLT before paying that price! But then, I'm not a fan of BLTs. Here are my recent photos of lettuce, as well as a few other things in the hydro. Here's the saved seed, that I don't know the variety of: IMG_20181220_145119253_HDR by pepperhead212, on Flickr Here's the Black Seeded Simpson - a little smaller, but catching up: IMG_20181220_145127668_HDR by pepperhead212, on Flickr Here's the Mizuna, and on the lower left and upper right you can see the leaves of the bok choy growing in there with them. IMG_20181220_145123841_HDR by pepperhead212, on Flickr Here is last season's indoor lettuce, to give you an idea of how long it can be harvested. This is on 4-1, almost ready for a small harvest: DSCF0511 by pepperhead212, on Flickr Here is the same plant, on 4-14, ready for the second harvest: DSCF0592 by pepperhead212, on Flickr And here it is on 5-3, ready for the 4th major harvest. DSCF0592 by pepperhead212, on Flickr Here is my final photo of indoor lettuce, on 5-24. It still had time left, but I was beginning to harvest outside, so I pulled it soon after this harvest. DSCF0642 by pepperhead212, on Flickr Here are several wild arugula plants - they don't produce like the leaf lettuce, but better than outside! DSCF0595 by pepperhead212, on Flickr And here's the Gecofure basil, along with the Siam Queen on the left. I am trimming this in the morning (along with a bunch of other things) to take to my friends at PT: IMG_20181220_145133573_HDR by pepperhead212, on Flickr And here's the Serrata basil, which I usually grow as the only regular basil indoors, but none of the cuttings rooted, so I had to grow it from seed, while the Gecofure was a clone. A little bit of dill behind there, as well: IMG_20181220_145153680_HDR by pepperhead212, on Flickr And here's the red epazote, which I have used twice, but trimmed at least 4 times. Unfortunately, nobody I know uses this, so I just have to throw it away. IMG_20181220_145138811_HDR by pepperhead212, on Flickr
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Post by Laura_in_FL on Dec 21, 2018 9:31:32 GMT -5
Going back to the suggestion of Asian greens to grow indoors for salads, you could try Tatsoi. It makes pretty rosettes of tender, spoon-shaped little leaves. It has a mild mustard flavor and can be eaten raw or lightly cooked. I found a nice picture of it: The main problem with growing tatsoi outdoors is that it bolts early. Hopefully with the controlled temperature and lighting indoors, that would not be a problem.
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Post by bluelacedredhead on Dec 21, 2018 9:36:12 GMT -5
Laura_in_FL, Yes, familiar with it from growing in the Coldframe. I love Tatsoi.
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Post by bluelacedredhead on Dec 21, 2018 9:39:08 GMT -5
september, $5 a head? OMG that worse than here and it has to travel further to get to me from Cali, cross a Border and convert to Canadian $! No wonder you eat Cabbage on BLT's, LOL pepperhead212, You've got me convinced! Great pics, Thanks for sharing.
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Post by september on Dec 21, 2018 9:56:30 GMT -5
pepperhead212 , Your pictures are so lovely - I can already taste the crunch! I'm not into long term growing under lights, or I would surely want to copy your methods! What a refreshing sight to see all that perfect edible greenery in the winter. No insects or slugs to deal with. bluelacedredhead , arrgh!!!! No, no, no! I would never eat cabbage on a BLT! Thinly sliced cukes will do in a pinch!
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Post by ladymarmalade on Dec 21, 2018 10:37:23 GMT -5
pepperhead212 , Your pictures are so lovely - I can already taste the crunch! I'm not into long term growing under lights, or I would surely want to copy your methods! What a refreshing sight to see all that perfect edible greenery in the winter. No insects or slugs to deal with. bluelacedredhead , arrgh!!!! No, no, no! I would never eat cabbage on a BLT! Thinly sliced cukes will do in a pinch! Sprouts are our lettuce alternative. We had tacos the other day and I wasn't paying $3 a head for horrible looking iceberg so I bought a container of sprouts. They actually worked very well in the tacos, but yesterday I caved and bought a jumbo pack of romaine at Sam's Club. Way cheaper then the grocery store at least!
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Post by bluelacedredhead on Dec 21, 2018 11:08:39 GMT -5
I love sprouts! Unfortunately, my spouse does not share the sentiment 😂
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Post by pepperhead212 on Dec 21, 2018 11:56:31 GMT -5
I do a lot of sprouts - besides the usual mung bean, adzuki beans and other legumes, including fenugreek, which I use in a lot of Indian food. And a lot of grains - barley, wheat, and a few others.
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Post by hairymooseknuckles on Dec 21, 2018 12:22:08 GMT -5
For eating, the only sprouts I've done at home was Mung beans and I only did it for kicks and giggles to see if I could do it. I don't have the discipline to check and rinse 3 times daily. I don't eat much salad unless it's a Caesar occasionally. My wife is the salad person in our house. If I'm going to choke one down, I need a pound of croutons and a whole rib of crackers.
I know, I'm WEIRD. I fully admit it.
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