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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2020 15:12:32 GMT -5
LOL; I've posted, I think, before about trapping varmints in my garden and back lot.
Today I'm catching squirrels--so far this week five squirrels, two blue jays, a cardinal and a red headed sapsucker. Two squirrels and a jay so far today.
This morning I had a very small squirrel, obviously young of the year. I knew better (folks on the net have warned me) than to try to catch him with even gloves on my hands. I thought "hey, i've got this long-handled grabber thingie, I'll try that."
So. I turned the trap on its end. I hardly got it up ended when the squirrel was there waiting for me to open the door. I decided against the grabber thingie; that squirrel was ready to run up the handle and chew off my arm.
I suspect that, short of giving the guy fermented grain in quantity, there is no way to handle a live squirrel. Rabbits, on the other hand, are not even a problem. Once full of corn they just don't seem to care.
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Post by brownrexx on Jan 30, 2020 17:32:59 GMT -5
I certainly hope that you are setting the birds free.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2020 18:35:53 GMT -5
I'm setting them all free,squirrels too, though when I had pecan trees I killed every jay I could. They are darn near as bad as squirrels when pecans are on the trees. Am old pecan grower told me that when he had a pecan orchard he paid boys a nickle each for every jay or squirrel killed. That would have been when a nickle was real money.
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Post by brownrexx on Jan 30, 2020 20:18:00 GMT -5
I really dislike this talk of killing birds. It is against Federal and most states laws to kill, possess or trap any wild birds except for pigeons, English Sparrows or starlings.
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Post by octave1 on Jan 30, 2020 20:31:24 GMT -5
I agree with brownrexx, I am not against hunting and fishing, but I find that "Not Just Tomatoes" is not the proper venue to discuss the killing of animals.
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Post by spacecase0 on Jan 30, 2020 22:22:01 GMT -5
I will trap squirrels to get them out of my garden, (birds will never get trapped in the trap I have) I let them go about 1/2 mile away let them out without gloves, then again I don't put my hand in the way either. they walk away, seemingly not that upset at me. and don't come back to my garden. my friends tell me I should be eating them, but I can't bring myself to do that. but all that ended a few years ago, I now have a neighbor that shoots all of them. he has a horse he is trying to protect, and what he does is legal where we are... nothing I can do to change his mind at all.
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Post by mgulfcoastguy on Jan 30, 2020 22:53:43 GMT -5
I'm setting them all free,squirrels too, though when I had pecan trees I killed every jay I could. They are darn near as bad as squirrels when pecans are on the trees. Am old pecan grower told me that when he had a pecan orchard he paid boys a nickle each for every jay or squirrel killed. That would have been when a nickle was real money. The old hermit 2 houses over back when I was 5 to 9 did that. Of course he had fig trees instead.
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Post by carolyn on Jan 31, 2020 9:39:37 GMT -5
any birds destroying my crops are free game for me. otherwise I leave them alone.
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Post by brownrexx on Jan 31, 2020 11:00:57 GMT -5
Killing birds except pigeons, English Sparrows or starlings for ANY reason is against federal law and if I see any of my neighbors killing birds I will report them.
We need to protect our crops in other ways than by killing wildlife. They are having enough trouble thanks to humans with habitat loss, pesticides and climate change.
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Post by september on Jan 31, 2020 19:01:45 GMT -5
I will trap squirrels to get them out of my garden, (birds will never get trapped in the trap I have) I let them go about 1/2 mile away let them out without gloves, then again I don't put my hand in the way either. they walk away, seemingly not that upset at me. and don't come back to my garden. my friends tell me I should be eating them, but I can't bring myself to do that. but all that ended a few years ago, I now have a neighbor that shoots all of them. he has a horse he is trying to protect, and what he does is legal where we are... nothing I can do to change his mind at all. Wait ... how is shooting the squirrels going to protect his horse? Never had a squirrel attack any of my horses, though some got electrocuted when they fell into the water tank and chewed on the electric heater cord trying to get out during the winter.
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Post by bestofour on Jan 31, 2020 20:57:22 GMT -5
We have 20 - 30 pecan trees and 4 fig trees . I figured we have so many squirrels due to the pecans and now I know why we see so many blue jays. I don't care how much they eat of either of these trees but why oh why do the squirrels want to tear up my bird feeders. Blue jays are pretty but they're aggressive to other birds and I don't like that about them. I've never killed a squirrel but I won't say that I never will. We've had friends and family who've had squirrels decide to nest in their attic or sides of their houses and even the animal control people can't make them stay away. I didn't realize that they're like cats and will find their way back to where they started from. They've also torn up screened in porches no matter what is tried. I live in the rural south and I've known people who actually eat squirrel brains. Unless I'm starving I can say that I'll never be one of those people.
One of our neighbors has cedar shingles on the second story of their house and a woodpecker decided to peck a hole in it. As the hole got bigger and bigger our neighbor did everything he could think of from covering the hole with screen (which the bird pecked around making the hole bigger), to putting a fake snake in the hole, to attaching rubber hosing around the outside of the hole, to calling animal control - that bird kept on pecking. One day the pecking stopped. I've never asked why.
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Post by octave1 on Jan 31, 2020 22:37:32 GMT -5
I don't love either squirrels or raccoons, but the word extermination never crossed my mind. One can coexist.
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Post by spike on Jan 31, 2020 23:44:38 GMT -5
We have rabbits that run amok. I planted clover in the way back to keep them out of the garden. If the little buggers get to close to the garden I loose the hounds on them. Now let me tell you that our 3 thundering hippos are not capable of catching a rabbit. But it is great fun for them to chase the bunnies and I am sure the bunnies get a good laugh. (I could not actually kill the bunnies but they sure do taste good with taters and gravy!)
My one Old Uncle had an issue with moles. He said that if you gave them bubble gum that it would kill them. Personally I think they all learned to blow bubbles, but what do I know.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2020 1:24:24 GMT -5
Well, LOL, I guess I am a disgusting one, having killed animals before, and if I have to trap an animal that has become a problem, frankly, I don't turn it lose to either die in an area it doesn't know or another animals territory, or to become some one else's problem. Squirrels I have no pity for, having had to get those varmints out of my attic and fix what they destroyed. Squirrels are just rats with fuzzy tails and better press releases. Bunnies, if they become a problem, are good with gravy. Raccoons and opossums get killed if they insist on getting into or about my area due to the fact they can be dangerous to my animals, foul feed, and shed some really nasty bacteria in their feces. And deer are tasty with or without gravy. I enjoy watching wildlife away from my home or gardens, and as long as they are not being a problem to me, they are mostly safe; deer season is an exception to that.
Regardless that your first post was about some one else's post disgusting you and that was the factor that got you to join instead of all the happier stuff, welcome to the board and I hope you enjoy the usually happy atmosphere here.
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Post by brownrexx on Feb 1, 2020 9:09:20 GMT -5
Welcome to the forum @michaela , I hope that you find some interesting topics here. This particular topic is not one that I enjoy either.
Rabbits and squirrels are prey animals and mostly due to human intervention causing habit loss, many of their predators have vanished. Hawks and owls still use them as a food source but their other predators are mostly gone.
I do not live in a densely populated area so I do not have more than an occasional rabbit or squirrel but I know that in less rural areas rabbits and squirrels and overpopulate and cause a lot of trouble.
Like @imp , I also do not believe in trapping and releasing such animals because it results in the death of the animal many times. You are just dumping your problem elsewhere and it is not a kindness to the animal.
Now killing wild birds is something that should NEVER be done except for the invasive species of pigeons, English Sparrows or Starlings.
If we put out tasty items like tender crops, nuts, fruits or even peanut butter in a trap - the birds will come. Of course they will, they do not know that it's YOUR food. They do not deserve to die for this and it's illegal as well. We can find other ways to protect our crops.
Hawk Mountain is a mountaintop in PA where people go to watch the hawk migration in the Fall and it's a beautiful thing but in times past men used to go to the mountain top with guns and kill the hawks and eagles by the hundreds because they were considered to be predators. There are old pictures of the proud hunters with row after row of dead raptors on the ground. Talk about disgusting.
I have heard of people who want to kill hawks because they might attack their puppies or chickens. The fine for this is can be $10,000 and the fine for the killing of small birds starts at $200 but can go as high as $1000. If the bird is not killed, then you can be prosecuted for animal cruelty.
As a matter of fact, this morning I am going to see where a raptor is building a big nest. We think that it's a Golden Eagle and we just want to look at it. Luckily the person who owns the farm does not intend to shoot it because he thinks that it might harm his animals. However if it turns out to be an eagle, we will notify the PA Game Commission will put some safety measures in place to protect it.
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Post by paquebot on Feb 1, 2020 12:09:24 GMT -5
I thought the everyone pretty much established their opinions on a previous thread but refresher course always help.
I consider a lot of wildlife as food. DNR agrees and sets seasons and bag limits. One can shoot 5 squirrels and 3 rabbits per day. City residents and landowners have more liberal regulations. That's why my best rabbit day was 13 and best squirrel day was 27. No limit on raccoon and best night was 22. Best deer day was 3. Also have no qualms about eating chicken, turkeys, sheep, goat, beef, and pork. They are all meat and have been part of my diet forever.
Currently we have had a long-running battle with squirrels in this area. Twice last fall there were two in the live trap at one time. I plant and they dig just to see what I planted. Stopped counting after awhile and quit tossing them into the tumbler when cold came. Just left them on a low bench for a gray fox to dispose of. Normally I would skin them at once but I already shared the fact that city-fed squirrels do not taste right. Perhaps it's due to so many years of eating them fed with natural feed.
With my small part of the city now almost rid of squirrels, trap was shifted to my son's place where he had the same problem. Solved that and switched to baiting for rabbits after getting tired or releasing the same possum over and over. Snowfalls show that he still has a rabbit or two and I won't get the trap back until he is rabbit-free. Then I'll catch the two or three which are too big for my neighbor's cat to handle. Any rabbit caught here is soaking in the kitchen sink 5 minutes after dispatching with a .22 CB Short. Unlike squirrels, city rabbits taste just as good as woods rabbits, maybe better.
Martin
The truth is more important than the facts.
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Post by brownrexx on Feb 1, 2020 12:17:52 GMT -5
@michaela , I was not lucky enough to see the eagle this morning but hubby did see her last week. She or he must have just been adding to the nest of sticks and there are no eggs to sit on yet. I'll keep checking because it is at the edge of a field beside a road that I travel frequently. We also have Great Horned Owls nesting locally and they are really cool. I can go and see them any time I want because they are only a few miles from where I live. However I do not want to add to the number of people viewing the nest so I will only go once in person and look at the photos on the Facebook site the rest of the time. People photograph them daily. They have been using this tree for the last 10 years and you can look right at them across a small creek. People are very protective of them because there is always the worry that someone will hurt them. Last year some jerk kid ran over a swan on purpose at this site. I am super glad that I was not there. Sorry, there may be an ad at the beginning of this video but it's worth waiting for. link
paquebot, I have no objection to hunting any game animals or even eliminating some of the overpopulated squirrels and rabbits although I think that fencing them out is better. I DO have a major objection to killing other wildlife such as wild birds. That is not legal and they are not a game animal.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2020 16:12:48 GMT -5
I am pretty much like paquebot as to what I'll eat, though I do pass on the raccoons and opossums. I will eat wild pig if it is not a boar. I have, in the past, hunted birds, especially bob white quail in season, also doves. But on the other hand, when I lived in east Texas, some loss due to coyotes and hawks was just expected with free range chickens, and honestly, the hawks got so many snakes, mice and rats that I didn't begrudge them a chicken now and then. Coyotes, though I have a certain admiration for them, I watched out for during calving season. A calf has a year invested in it when it hits the ground and I didn't plan on losing any if I could help it. I even like the Grackles we have here in town, funny cheeky devils and smart, too. Used to have some June bug and their larva in my front yard, and when I would dig the larva up, I'd toss them onto the sidewalk, in the heat. The grackles would line up, 5 or 6 at a time, waiting to grab it and go, watching close so they could see when I would toss it. Pretty soon, no more darn June bugs.
I did sincerely mean the welcome, and hope you do enjoy the site and all of us. We may all be different, but there are many common areas too. We might not be always alright, but we sure get close at times!
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Post by paquebot on Feb 1, 2020 20:25:11 GMT -5
This thread is sounding like the Trump impeachment circus. Until quail were mentioned, I do not believe that there was my mention of anyone killing birds. I did mention chickens and turkeys but they were already dead when they got here.
I didn't mention the sparrow trap that we set up now and then to protect our pigeons. No blue jays or cardinals have gotten into it but chickadees will sometimes end up in it. A robin somehow tripped the animal live trap one time. Besides rabbits and squirrels, other catches have been raccoon, groundhogs, opossums, cats, and mink.
I would suggest that any with PETA objections check the laws in your state regarding game or nuisance animals and birds in municipal areas. A city may regulate how you harvest them but the state owns and regulates them in most instances. For instance, I can harvest rabbits and squirrels year around on my property according to state regulations. City says that I can not use a firearm or bow. If a neighbor is spending $20 a month buying corn for them, that's his business. They are his critteres when in his yard but my critters when in mine.
Martin
The truth is more important than the facts.
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Post by Laura_in_FL on Feb 2, 2020 12:49:51 GMT -5
I think this thread was de-escalating and I don't want to see it re-escalate. So as a moderator I want to say a few things:
1. Discussions of legal hunting, fishing and trapping have always been allowed in appropriate areas of the site.
2. Illegal activity of any kind, including illegal animal killing, should not be discussed at NJT.
3. Discussions of preparing and preserving the harvests from legal hunting, fishing, and trapping are fine.
4. However, in the friendly spirit of our community, I ask that people clearly identify threads about killing animals in the title so animal lovers can avoid them if they wish.
5. Debate about when/how/whether it's appropriate to kill animals MUST be kept civil by everyone involved. NO name calling or rudeness will be allowed.
6. MOST IMPORTANT: Remember we are all a family here, and we respect each other even when we have heartfelt disagreements.
Hopefully we can all keep this in mind, especially #6. The loving family atmosphere here is what makes this site special!
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Post by bestofour on Feb 2, 2020 15:53:40 GMT -5
@michaela, you are welcome here. On this site we discuss or thoughts, likes, and dislikes without name calling and yelling. You've come to a nice place. Mind you, some will state their thoughts and opinions and some will disagree, but we remain decent in our postings. brownrexx, I'm in the country with only 1 close neighbor so is it the pecan trees causing me to be overrun with squirrels? This is a new issue for us, starting a little over a year ago. Before that, like you we saw a few squirrels a day and now they're everywhere and aren't one bit scared of our cats or our giant dog. The pecan trees have been here lots longer than either me or the squirrels have been so I'm not sure why that would be the reason.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2020 16:36:00 GMT -5
As I said; I release them all, but when the plants are up the squirrels and rabbits free passes are over.
In fact, right now, winter, is the best time to be eating rabbit. Why my trap takes birds as well as squirrels and Rabbits I don't know, but it is a standard wire box trap. Doves have tripped it too, but none so far this year. Not enough starlings and sparrows around to count, and pigeons, if there were any, would fall into the squirrel and rabbit category.
As for the jays, my understanding is that the law permits a farmer to dispatch wild animals preying on his crops. The old farmer who paid boys a nickle each for jays and squirrels was protecting his livelihood. People who never had to make a living on the land can be as scornful as they wish, but those who try to grow crops for a living cannot afford to be squeamish when predators are eating their crops.
Ag officials have said privately "shoot, shovel and shut up". Probably good advice considering how few people know what damage some wildlife can cause.
I live in an area where deer cause problems. They are carrying a wasting disease, they carry bangs disease and they raid farmers feed put out for cattle. Some fellow dumped six within a half mile of my house last summer, I saw another tossed into the lake off a bridge. Someone else distributed several around the neighborhood. All this while folks are putting deer feeders in their back yards. Opinions vary.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2020 16:43:37 GMT -5
BestofFour: When I was in ok and had grafted pecan trees I was told that a squirrel loose in an orchard would destroy almost a hundred dollars worth of pecans over the season if left alone. If your trees are infested with squirrels you will get few pecans for yourself.
I tried grafting English Walnut on Black Walnut. Huge success with the grafts, but the squirrels would come out of the woods just before the walnuts were ready for me to pick and STRIP A TREE IN ONE MORNING. I never go a taste of walnut off three trees grafted in the woods, but I got regular crops of pecans in the orchard where the squirrels had a harder time.
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Post by brownrexx on Feb 2, 2020 18:04:32 GMT -5
As for the jays, my understanding is that the law permits a farmer to dispatch wild animals preying on his crops. The old farmer who paid boys a nickle each for jays and squirrels was protecting his livelihood. People who never had to make a living on the land can be as scornful as they wish, but those who try to grow crops for a living cannot afford to be squeamish when predators are eating their crops. Ag officials have said privately "shoot, shovel and shut up". Probably good advice considering how few people know what damage some wildlife can cause. No the law does not permit farmers to kill birds without a permit and to obtain a permit they must show that they have tried less lethal means first. This is a federal law called the Migratory Bird Treaty and killing protected birds such as Blue Jays carries a hefty fine. I don't know what kind of Ag Officials you have talked to but if I EVER heard one say something as ignorant as "shoot, shovel and shut up" I would be immediately be reporting them. I can't even imagine an Ag official saying that to anyone. I would hope that they are more law abiding and professional than that. I don't know why legal hunting is being brought up on this thread as no one has criticized that. As far as I know it is legal to eliminate squirrels and rabbits. Wild BIRDS are the issue here.
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Post by brownrexx on Feb 2, 2020 18:10:39 GMT -5
brownrexx, I'm in the country with only 1 close neighbor so is it the pecan trees causing me to be overrun with squirrels? bestofour, I guess that they go where they can find food. I see them around our chestnut trees but after that crop is done, they are gone. Maybe they have lost a food supply in your area that they used to have so you are seeing them around the pecans more or maybe, due to lack of predators, they are overpopulating. I would suspect that it is overpopulation.
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Post by paquebot on Feb 2, 2020 18:53:44 GMT -5
Squirrel populations are contingent on food supply. That's why I was able to shoot 27 in a single day and the friend with me got 13 more. All of that was in probably 100 acres of woods. That was back when deer were scarce and no turkeys or coyotes. That farm is still active and still has the same forest acreage but I'd have to work for a daily limit of 5. Also, squirrels will migrate just like lemmings. They won't even stop for Rivers. Look it up if you don't believe it. Those can either be mass migrations of thousands or hundred. There will be none in an area one day and everywhere you look the next.
There's another thing that you all need to know about squirrels. In Nature, one male is dominant in a given area. No other adult males are allowed into it. He keeps all others under control. That system breaks down in cities. There was one year when squirrels were indeed everywhere. They chewed holes in the garage soffit as fast as I could patch them. In two weeks, caught 22 squirrels and all but one were juvenile males. Just like their human counterparts sometimes are, delinquents.
Martin
The truth is more important than the facts.
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Post by spacecase0 on Feb 2, 2020 21:33:07 GMT -5
Wait ... how is shooting the squirrels going to protect his horse? Never had a squirrel attack any of my horses, though some got electrocuted when they fell into the water tank and chewed on the electric heater cord trying to get out during the winter. [/div] [/quote] they make holes in the ground that can snap the legs of the horses if they step in them. tree squirrels are no issue at all as they don't dig holes, at least here, most people like tree squirrels. but the ground squirrels kill cattle where I live.
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Post by bestofour on Feb 2, 2020 22:56:14 GMT -5
spacecase0, I don't think I have ground squirrels here. At least I hope not. The ones in the trees are bad enough. I would love to get rid of them. I've heard that we have plenty of coyotes around here but I've never seen one. Maybe the squirrels have scared them off @imp, I definitely don't like Grackles. They are an aggressive bird in my yard and will eat every seed and every berry in site. They come through is droves once a year and I change my seed to safflower because I read they don't like it and it has really helped with them not staying long. When the berries are gone they are too.
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Post by Laura_in_FL on Feb 3, 2020 14:23:37 GMT -5
This is a topic about which members of our little forum family have very strong opinions. It's unlikely that anyone's personal opinions about killing nuisance animals or hunting is going to be changed by anything posted on this thread. My concerns here are (1) that we don't wreck our relationships and (2) that no one gets in trouble because of something they read here. brownrexx is correct that many wild birds are federally protected, and can't be legally killed even if they are damaging crops on your property - unless you get a permit. A lot of common birds are federally protected: www.fws.gov/birds/management/managed-species/migratory-bird-treaty-act-protected-species.php, including blue jays and cardinals. To get a permit it is necessary to document the damage or hazard and attempt non-lethal control measures first. I think there are exceptions (meaning you can kill protected species without a permit) for a few birds like crows and grackles when they are causing crop damage, but I haven't fully researched that. Please check the species list and research the rules before you kill any wild birds. So, someone saying to "shoot, shovel, and shut up" may be advising illegal activity. Unless you're sure the advice is legal, it's not a good idea to talk on the internet about taking such advice. However, some wild bird species, including some federally protected migratory birds - ducks, geese, etc., may be legally hunted. There are restrictions on the species that can be hunted, bag limits, permits/licenses will be required, there are restrictions on hunting methods, and you can only take birds during designated hunting seasons. Please do your research and get everything in order before you hunt. Many other kinds of wildlife are legal to trap and kill (in some states) if they are on your property and posing a nuisance. Depending on the state and the species involved, a permit may not be required. Generally there are no "seasons" for nuisance wildlife killing since it's done only on your own property and only in response to damage or hazard. There are restrictions on the methods that can be used to trap and/or kill nuisance wildlife. Check with your own state for species that are legal to kill, permits needed, and other rules. As for trapping and relocating wildlife, in some states transporting and releasing wildlife off your property is outright illegal, or is subject to serious restrictions. Releasing those pesky squirrels or possums or raccoons into the woods can get you into a lot of trouble! If you intend to "catch and release," please check the laws on relocating wildlife in your state before you set out traps. I hope this is helpful.
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Post by brownrexx on Feb 3, 2020 16:46:10 GMT -5
Obviously Laura_in_FL, has researched this and I agree with her conclusions. I see no reason to discuss this further and I do not wish to start any arguments so I am back to gardening topics for now.
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