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Post by pepperhead212 on Nov 7, 2020 18:11:53 GMT -5
It's that time! I know some have already planted, since they are much colder, and some even warmer than I am have planted theirs. I always wait until about a week into November, and this year is much warmer than usual - in the 70s for a while. I got my ground ready a couple of days ago, and today I started working on the garlic.
I got all of my garlic separated, and counted out, and it will be soaking overnight in a solution of kelp and potassium bicarbonate, then tomorrow, I'll rinse them briefly in 50% isopropyl alcohol, and plant.
I have 32 huge cloves of German Extra Hardy from a pound of seed garlic, and the same number of cloves almost as large, from just under a pound of Estonian Red, using my largest heads. Then 60 cloves of Metechi from a pound of seed garlic - still large cloves, just not huge like those other two. And I have 33 cloves of Montana Giant, from a little over a pound, from last season. Any extra area I have will get planted with shallots. And maybe some elsewhere, too.
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dirtguy50
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My avatar got in trouble for digging in the garden
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Zone:: 6b
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Post by dirtguy50 on Nov 7, 2020 19:31:41 GMT -5
Dave, I am really confused about growing shallots. We have never grown them but thinking it would be good to do so but the confusion for me is to plant in the fall or spring here in zone 6b. If they are grown so shallow, what will keep them from freezing when our temps reach zero during the winter? Your opinion is valued over the years, so give me your thoughts please.
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Post by pepperhead212 on Nov 7, 2020 21:31:53 GMT -5
dirtguy50 I have found it best to plant shallots in the fall here. I have tried it in the spring, but even when harvested well into the fall, the size was not large, and none had formed clusters. Same thing when I tried them from seed. Dutch reds are the ones I have the best results with, but sometimes I just buy some at Whole Foods (since they are organic), and use the largest ones, about 7 or 8" apart. However, small ones can be planted, closer together, and they usually produce large shallots, but not clustered. Shallots started in fall are always ready to harvest in June, a few weeks before my garlic. Once the stalks start browning, they go quickly. But even when dug up after totally browned, they store well, unlike garlic. The only problem I ever had with shallots was with a gray seed shallot I got, that ended up with worms in them - didn't get into any of my other alliums, and I never grew it again, and the worms never showed up again.
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dirtguy50
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My avatar got in trouble for digging in the garden
Posts: 255
Zone:: 6b
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Post by dirtguy50 on Nov 8, 2020 9:23:57 GMT -5
Thanks Dave. As I understand it, they grow above ground and do not need mulched. So, the freezing temperatures don't bother them? Is that correct?
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Post by pepperhead212 on Nov 8, 2020 11:27:57 GMT -5
I've never heard of shallots growing above ground. In fact, I've never heard of growing any allium bulbs above ground. I'm guessing this was from one of those "internet experts" we frequently see. If you picture this - setting a shallot on top of the ground, it is going to be awfully hard for the roots to get started!
I've seen some suggestions to plant in the spring, and not too deep - maybe this is what they were talking about. As with garlic, in some areas with warmer and longer seasons, this may work, but as I noted, it didn't for me, and I plant them in fall, about as deep as garlic, then mulch them with a thick layer of leaves or straw. Never had a problem, except with those gray shallots.
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Post by paquebot on Nov 8, 2020 18:11:14 GMT -5
Fall planting shallots is fine in Zone 6 and below. I have had total loss of some varieties when planting in fall. Now it's strictly in the spring. Maybe I didn't mulch deep enough or those winters were exceptionally cold.
Planting is shallow but they form on top. Maybe that's where someone got the idea that they were planted that way.
Martin
The truth is more important than the facts.
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Post by pepperhead212 on Nov 8, 2020 18:51:45 GMT -5
Garlic and shallots are in! I did 3 rows in the wide row that my squash was in, and that my rosemary and sage are in - a row I haven't grown garlic or any alliums in for at least 8 years. The rows are about 10" apart, garlic 5" apart, and the shallots 9" apart for the large, 6" for the small. I had 32 shallots to plant, and a little more space than I needed, which I why I spaced the larger further apart, than usual. I dumped some ground up leaves in them - I'll let them settle, and put some more in later on, or some straw. The finished 3 rows of garlic and shallots, mulched with leaves, same row the squash was in. by pepperhead212, on Flickr It's funny how large those metechi cloves were, yet they were my small cloves! There were a few average sized cloves, but most were what I would consider 2 cloves, when cooking. Those German Extra Hardy Porcelain and Estonian Reds were so large that I consider that size 3-4 cloves. That's why I like these kinds so much. The small metechi cloves! In a 10 x 13 inch tray, for reference. by pepperhead212, on Flickr paquebot When do you harvest your shallots, and what varietie(s) do you plant? Seems a catch 22, planting in spring farther north/colder areas, as there would be even less time than I had, but I had small shallots, harvested in the fall. But maybe the variety I tried in the beginning was not bred for this.
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Post by paquebot on Nov 8, 2020 21:00:36 GMT -5
I have had Frog Leg, French Gray, Dutch Red, and Golden. Lost all but Golden over a 2 or 3 year period. All from fall planting. Have recently swapped some Golden for Dutch Red so I have one of them back. I have prepared an area or 15 of each next year. I'll be able to plant as soon as the frost is gone. Then harvest in early to mid-August.
Hot tip, in case you forgot. Large sets make a lot of small bulbs. Small sets make fewer but larger bulbs. Just the opposite of what one would think.
Martin
The truth is more important than the facts.
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Post by pepperhead212 on Nov 8, 2020 23:46:06 GMT -5
Hot tip, in case you forgot. Large sets make a lot of small bulbs. Small sets make fewer but larger bulbs. Just the opposite of what one would think. I think I learned this from you originally, and this is why I planted the small ones closer - they do make larger shallots, but often not split at all. The larger ones make the clusters of smaller shallots - still more, by weight, but smaller individually. And now I know that they can be killed by extreme cold, so in years of extreme cold here, I'll be sure to mulch them heavily. The Dutch Red and Golden are the two best ones I have grown; the French gray were a totally different shape, and got some worm in almost all of them the only year I grew them - only ones this ever happened with, and I grew two others that season.
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Post by Laura_in_FL on Nov 9, 2020 12:42:06 GMT -5
I wasn't going to grow garlic, but changed my mind and ordered some late. It's been shipped and should arrive any day now. This is a good time to plant, but I will have to ignore my own advice about vernalizing...hopefully we'll get some cold or at least cool weather this winter and spring won't get too hot too fast.
Red Toch is what I ordered since it did well for me last time. I also ordered some Dutch Red shallots on a lark. Going to try fall planting and see how they do. I might just end up with shallot greens.
Ah, well. Sometimes it's fun just to grow things, even if you don't get much harvest, right?
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Post by domination2580th on Nov 9, 2020 23:59:06 GMT -5
From what I'm getting out of this topic is you plant I the fall, they go through a freeze period, then start growing in spring?
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Post by brownrexx on Nov 10, 2020 9:11:14 GMT -5
Yes, garlic is planted in the Fall.
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Post by pepperhead212 on Nov 10, 2020 10:42:11 GMT -5
domination2580th Where are you located? Garlic can be planted in spring - in Gilroy CA, the garlic capital, it is planted this way, because they have a longer, moderate season, but some garlic needs a cold winter to form a head. I have had rocombole varieties not form heads when I had a mild winter, so I never grow those. And in the south, where it gets hot, and doesn't have a very cold winter, it's better to plant certain varieties that don't need that cold winter, and can resist some of the heat, before they are harvested. If you are in that area, Laura and some others can help you with specific varieties.
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Post by paquebot on Nov 10, 2020 10:46:56 GMT -5
As long as the ground is not frozen, garlic will grow. If there is a heavy snow cover, it may even grow up into the snow. I have seen that twice. Frost does not harm garlic. I have planted into frozen ground which required either a hatchet or bulb auger to make holes.
Martin
The truth is more important than the facts.
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Post by domination2580th on Nov 10, 2020 12:17:15 GMT -5
domination2580th Where are you located? Garlic can be planted in spring - in Gilroy CA, the garlic capital, it is planted this way, because they have a longer, moderate season, but some garlic needs a cold winter to form a head. I have had rocombole varieties not form heads when I had a mild winter, so I never grow those. And in the south, where it gets hot, and doesn't have a very cold winter, it's better to plant certain varieties that don't need that cold winter, and can resist some of the heat, before they are harvested. If you are in that area, Laura and some others can help you with specific varieties. South Dakota
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Post by paquebot on Nov 12, 2020 14:48:00 GMT -5
My garlic is doing what it did one time in the 1980s. That year there was 8" of mulch and still growing above it. There are suddenly some 6" spears today. Won't like it if they start opening so another couple inches of shredded leaves went on. Looks like they could keep growing for at least another 10 days. Maybe see 4" bulbs next year if all goes according to plans.
Martin
The truth is more important than the facts.
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Post by Laura_in_FL on Nov 13, 2020 13:46:18 GMT -5
Sigh. I had hoped that USPS would do better after the elections, but I guess not.
My garlic shipped from Washington (state) on Nov. 6. It made it to Panama City and was "out for delivery" on Nov. 10. For some reason my package wasn't actually delivered - no delivery attempt was made. Instead of leaving it on the delivery truck to deliver the next day, USPS sent it back to the processing facility in Pensacola. Supposedly now it's finally en route back here again. USPS tracking says it's going to be delivered today, but since the package didn't even leave Pensacola until 11:21 this morning, and Pensacola is a 3 hour drive, I am not holding my breath. Maybe tomorrow it will arrive.
I am just glad it's garlic and shallot bulbs instead of live green plants. Live plants would be dead by now. I do worry that the bulbs are sprouting in the box since it has been so warm here lately.
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Post by paquebot on Nov 13, 2020 21:25:52 GMT -5
Riding all around the state in a hot truck definitely is not doing the garlic any good. They don't like being half-cooked.
Martin
The truth is more important than the facts.
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Post by Laura_in_FL on Nov 14, 2020 12:42:31 GMT -5
Yeah, I hope I don't have to ask for my money back or a replacement. I would much, much rather get them in good condition now so I can get them in the ground!
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btittanyg
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Post by btittanyg on Nov 15, 2020 1:24:18 GMT -5
Hi! I have planted garlic for the first time this fall, and covered it with 5-6 inches of mulch. But I am not sure about how to water them. Some articles say i need to water them deeply while some say I should do it sparingly. Also should I avoid watering if it snows? Do I need to watch for rains and snow on weather apps like Aeris, Weatherbit or Climacell? I live in Duluth MN. Please advice. Thanks in advance.
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Deleted
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Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2020 5:43:05 GMT -5
Hi, welcome to the board. Another member or members can advise you on watering the garlic as far north as you are, I am in Texas, and so there are differences.
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Post by paquebot on Nov 15, 2020 9:22:48 GMT -5
Fall-planted garlic does not need any extra water. All it wants to do is make a root system using whatever stored energy is in the clove. If you are in an area that gets snow, you have a typical winter and that's a time for the growing plant ti rest and possibly add depth to the root system. When mature, the root system will be over 3' deep. That should find ample water. "Well-drained soil" is often mentioned as a garlic requirement for a good reason. Too much water can lead to basal rot.
Martin
The truth is more important than the facts.
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Post by Laura_in_FL on Nov 15, 2020 13:31:51 GMT -5
Got my garlic order late yesterday. It seems okay (looks fine, smells fine, cloves still very firm), so I am going to plant it and hope its shipping adventure didn't do it any serious harm.
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ponyexpress
Junior Member
Posts: 86
Zone:: 6b
Favorite Vegetable:: alliums
Joined: June 2020
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Post by ponyexpress on Nov 19, 2020 19:59:30 GMT -5
But I am not sure about how to water them. I agree with Martin. I don't water mine. They'll do fine with the natural snowfall/rain. Once it's spring, you'll want to make sure they get 1/2" to 1" of water per week. The higher end when it's warmer.
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elkhound
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Post by elkhound on Dec 1, 2020 4:10:59 GMT -5
136 martin heirloom garlic planted first week of nov and most are up and growing now.be planting more soon...i hope.
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Post by domination2580th on Dec 1, 2020 8:18:34 GMT -5
What do the gallic orders look like when they arrive? Where does everyone order from?
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Post by paquebot on Dec 1, 2020 9:16:14 GMT -5
Best place for buying garlic is Filaree. It will arrive as full bulbs to be broken down to individual cloves for planting. www.filareefarm.comMartin The truth is more important than the facts.
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Post by Laura_in_FL on Dec 1, 2020 9:25:46 GMT -5
Yeah, Filaree is . You're up north, right domination2580th? If you were in the South and needed garlic adapted for mild winter climates, I would also suggest Forever Yong Farms. They have always sent me excellent quality garlic, and they have a great selection of garlic for mild winter areas. www.foreveryongfarms.com/products.html
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Post by domination2580th on Dec 1, 2020 11:56:04 GMT -5
Ok so they say that silver skin garlic can be stored the longest.... what are some of the best flavor ones?
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Post by paquebot on Dec 4, 2020 21:31:18 GMT -5
Ok so they say that silver skin garlic can be stored the longest.... what are some of the best flavor ones? Looks like Forever was only temporary! They appear to be sold out of everything. Filaree still has decent variety. Of the silvershins that they list, I am familiar with a few but liked Nootka Rose the best. Martin The truth is more important than the facts.
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