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Post by pepperhead212 on Jul 16, 2019 23:30:54 GMT -5
3 friends and I got together tonight and tasted tomatoes! Earlier, I went out and harvested a few, as I noted, and here are some photos. The larger one, and also two showing the core in one of the Beefy Boys. I remember this happening on almost every tomato of some varieties in the past - this hard, whitish, core area, that has to be cut out. Hopefully this was just an unusual occurrence. Big Beef, L, next to the Beefy Boy with the huge core. by pepperhead212, on Flickr Largest so far, a Beefy Boy. by pepperhead212, on Flickr And here are almost all of the varieties of tomatoes we were going to sample. A couple we didn't remember to include: Tomatoes L>R Beefy Boy, Goliath Pio, Pretty In Pink, Big Beef, Black Vernisage, Sunset Falls, Unk. 1, Unk 2, Chef's Choice Green, Amish Gold Slicer, Pink Champagne, Black Opal, Jasper, Sprite Grape, Sunsugar, and Cherry Bomb. by pepperhead212, on Flickr And here's the list, giving my results with growing on some of them, as well. New (for me)Larger varietiesBeefy Boy Good, but not quite as good as Big Beef. And some I have had to cut larger areas of the core out of, than most. Largest tomato of any,s so far - 18.30 oz. Also the first to ripen, in the larger tomatoes. Chef's Choice F1 This wasn't what the catalog said, thus it's one of my "Unk" varieties. Plum shaped, though not a plum, as it has juice. Good, but it was also one of those that came down with aphids, while most had none. Chef's Choice Green This did look like the Chef's choice in the catalog, and ripened green. Nothing spectacular in flavor. Not a keeper. Goliath Pio This was the second aphid attracting tomato. It eventually got rid of it, but the plants did not look great afterwards. The flavor wasn't as strong as the Big Beef, but had good tomato flavor, and one taster put this on the top of their list. One of the later larger ones to ripen, but it's finally catching up. Lime Green Salad This is a small, under 2 ft. plant, with 3 oz or under fruits. No great flavor, but crispy, even when fully ripe, and no unpleasant flavors. It's a determinate - the other reason it's not a keeper, to me. The seeds were freebies - I guess they were testing them out. Stupice Another small plant, with small plum like tomatoes. Flavor not bad, but not productive at all, so not a keeper. Smaller varietiesBlack Opal This one had good flavor, but would have some develop bad flavor, without being able to tell which ones (spitters!). That, and the plant being prone to some disease, makes it not a keeper, for me. Cherry Bomb F1 LARGE cherry tomato - ping pong or golf ball sized. Good flavor - not quite as tart as Jasper, but has a well balanced flavor. A little later ripening than other cherries, but still before 7-4. Large numbers of tomatoes. Problem was the yellowing of the plants, next to others having no problems. I'll see how they turn out in the long run. Jasper F1 These are about a scant inch in diameter, and have a lot of tomatoes on the plants. They ripened before 7-4, but they tend to keep a yellow "shoulder" on the fruits, even when ripened almost a week on the counter. On that note, I never had one go bad on the counter, as many cherries do. The flavor is good, with a tartness, that some didn't like, but I like that, for some things, but not for snacking on. Pink Champagne F1 This is a pink grape tomato, with a good flavor, but some tasted under-ripe, even when appearing totally ripe. Not a huge plant, and not super productive, so not a keeper, for me. Sprite This is a trade seed I got this year, and the tomatoes are better than any grapes I have had or grown before. Strange plant, in that the leaves seemed small and few, with a huge number of tomatoes, and I wondered how such a small number of leaves could support that many fruits! The tomatoes are somewhat sweet, with a slightly tart flavor to go with it, and a good tomato flavor. Everyone liked them, and we all noticed the crispness, even though these had been ripening several days on the counter. OLD
Larger VarietiesAmish Gold Slicer None ripe yet - just the one with a slightly green shoulder, and the second one a little less ripe, but they are starting! I wish we had them, as the last few years they came in second and third in the tasting. Big Beef Came in first again! 3 of 4 of us had it on top, and the one who had the Goliath on top, had this second. Definitely a great tomato flavor, with a balanced flavor, and that juiciness needed in a good tomato! Burracker's Favorite None ripe yet - late variety. Pretty In Pink This was second for two of us, and 3rd and 4th for the other two, so it was 2nd overall, we figured. Good flavor, not quite as strong as the Big Beef, but better balanced than the Beefy Boy, was the general consensus. Smaller VarietiesGreen Tiger One of my favorites every year, but the ones I got this season were NOT green tigers - a larger, red, unknown variety. Not bad, but not what I wanted. I'll find another source! Sunset Falls - succession plant This one I grew again, after getting an incredible number of tomatoes from just one plant last season, which had a great flavor. They are about 2-2 1/2" x 1", and ripen striped orange/yellow. It's a determinate, which I rarely plant, and as soon as the large number of tomatoes came off of the small plant, it dies! As much as I liked them, the later plants didn't produce as well - must not like heat - so I probably won't do this again. Everyone liked the flavor, as last year. Sunsugar As always, these are some of the best, though the incredible sweetness makes them good for other than usual things, like snacking on, som tum, and making raisin like dried tomatoes. Or anywhere else the sweetness is an advantage. They do have a great tomato flavor to go with it, as well, unlike some sweet ones I've tried. When we were winding this up, I asked them when they wanted to come over for a chile tasting, since they are getting ready to ripen. I got dirty looks from a couple of them.
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Post by hairymooseknuckles on Jul 16, 2019 23:54:37 GMT -5
Cool review!
I'm interested in sprite. I don't think I've ever heard of it.
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Post by brownrexx on Jul 17, 2019 7:40:41 GMT -5
pepperhead212 , I have seen some white cores in my first tomatoes too but I had large white cores right down the center. I am wondering if it comes from excessive heat? We always like Big Beef too. Some people look down on it because it's from Burpee and a hybrid but it's a fabulous and dependable tomato. I always grow that one. I also grew Stupice one year and was not impressed.
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Post by september on Jul 17, 2019 8:39:01 GMT -5
pepperhead212 , interesting to read reviews of tomatoes I've never grown, thanks for posting them. brownrexx , I grow Stupice every year, not because of the flavor, but because for me it is consistently the earliest, usually 3 weeks before anything else. Once the later, larger tomatoes start producing it pretty much gets ignored, but I wouldn't be without it. I've tried a few of the other early PL's, but prefer Stupice. In a normal season it would be producing for me in early July. Not this year.
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Post by paulf on Jul 17, 2019 8:43:17 GMT -5
I miss the old group that had annual taste testing parties in Lincoln, Ne the first weekend of August. A bunch of us got together (highest count was 75 people and more tomato varieties than people) and had a potluck, talked tomato and had a good time. Piegirl and I planned it out; after she passed away unexpectedly it just didn't happen any more. Every once in a while I invite flower clubs or civic organizations if they ask me and 4-H groups to taste what I have. No hybrids unless someone brings one or two to try. They always finish at the bottom of the list anyway.
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Post by Gianna on Jul 17, 2019 9:18:37 GMT -5
3 friends and I got together tonight and tasted tomatoes! Cool idea. Probably more productive than wine tasting.
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Post by Gianna on Jul 17, 2019 9:43:35 GMT -5
My main tomato is Early Girl. Yes, a hybrid. But an old hybrid. In my climate, EG has it all. Vigor, productivity, taste, firmness, and reliability. And of course, the fruits are ripe early, ..and late. Not every year, but some years when the plant is in a really sunny spot, and it's not been that cold, I'll have ripe fruits all winter. Not as sweet as summer, but much better than anything you could buy. I've tried a full range of tomatoes here (coastal SoCal) and most have just been ordinary, or not good at all. Many heirlooms were honed in climates far different from this one. What does well on this property (hot, dry hillside) is even different from what did well 3-4 miles away (lower elevation, deep, rich topsoil). There I could just toss something into the ground and it would do great. There Early Girl was mediocre. Here, a totally different story. brownrexx , What's with the dislike of Burpee? A couple years ago on another forum I mentioned I had ordered from them, and got some... unexpected responses. ?? I dont try too many new things from them, but they have some good sales when I replenish seed for some old stand-bys. Just did that a few weeks ago. Their seed germinates and grows.. what more can one want?
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Post by Laura_in_FL on Jul 17, 2019 9:47:14 GMT -5
Great report on your tomato tasting, pepperhead212! I am happy for you and your guests, but also quite jealous! I hate it when tomatoes have that hard whitish core. I have given up on a couple of otherwise really nice varieties because it's frustrating to have to cut away so much of the fruit. And the fruit from fused blossoms is even worse, because the core is irregularly shaped and goes all through the tomato. By the time you cut it out, you've wasted a lot of time and most of the tomato! Hopefully that was a fluke and the rest of your Beefy Boys will have a normal-sized core. Sprite sounds like a really nice small tomato to try. How does the plant hold up to foliage diseases? Is it continuing to set fruit in the heat? I keep seeing rave reviews of Big Beef - and not just from you. I tried growing it in 2017 but decided my seeds weren't true. I bought a plant that also didn't seem to be the real deal. Do you recall where you got your seeds, Dave? Because I am tempted to try that variety again sometime.
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Post by Laura_in_FL on Jul 17, 2019 9:57:53 GMT -5
My main tomato is Early Girl. Yes, a hybrid. But an old hybrid. In my climate, EG has it all. Vigor, productivity, taste, firmness, and reliability. And of course, the fruits are ripe early, ..and late. Not every year, but some years when the plant is in a really sunny spot, and it's not been that cold, I'll have ripe fruits all winter. Not as sweet as summer, but much better than anything you could buy...There Early Girl was mediocre. Here, a totally different story. I have read in other places that Early Girl is great-tasting when grown in drier, climates and that it's a good tomato for dry-farming. Apparently the flavor is a lot more concentrated if it grows in drier conditions. Here in a humid, wet climate, it's...yep, mediocre. It is quite early, though. Because it's early, it usually produces well from a spring planting because it finishes before the pest and disease pressure get too intense. But I haven't grown it in years because there are tastier options.
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Post by pepperhead212 on Jul 17, 2019 12:04:16 GMT -5
I agree, Laura_in_FL - Early Girl was one of the least flavored tomatoes, many years ago (early 90s?), when I got into growing a lot of new tomatoes from seed. A friend that was one of the tasters back then grew the Early Girl, Better Boy, Big Boy, and other varieties available at local nurseries, and would bring some over to test, along with the ones that I grew that year. When tasted before the new varieties, they had good flavor, but when tasted after the new ones, they simply tasted bland! And the Early Girl was the least flavorful. Better Boy was ok, I remember, but still bland, in comparison. After a couple of years of this, he said "you know what this means - you're going to have to grow more of those from now on, and give me some!" UPDATE: I forgot Black Vernisage, because we only had one of those small fruits, and could only taste it once, and not go back to it, like with the others. It was very good, and was the first non-cherry - 1 1/2-2" - to ripen. And none split this year, despite all this rain! However, the first time I grew it, it wasn't until well into August that the splitting started.
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Post by Gianna on Jul 17, 2019 12:55:31 GMT -5
I dry farm mine as much as possible. Those in the ground only get watered when they show significant wilting, which isnt often in soils in the back. In front, where the soil is close to sand, they need and get more. In pots, they get more water, but then they also get dry sooner. And in pots, they are still very good.
When grown in the ground, and watered well, the vines and fruits get larger, and the fruits definitely softer and more watery.. not nearly as good. This is what most likely what would happen in areas where there are summer rains. Here - no problem with that luxury.
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Post by brownrexx on Jul 17, 2019 13:24:41 GMT -5
Gianna, I don't quite understand why some people dislike Burpee. I don't have a problem with them. I did see some comments once where the person was mad that Burpee would not disclose the parentage of one of their hybrid tomatoes. I don't blame them. The person just wanted to grow their own and after all Burpee is the one who created the hybrid so I feel that they have the right to keep the information to themselves. They are in business to make money after all. The Burpee farm is near Philadelphia and less than an hour away from where I live. We went to a festival there a couple of years ago and it was super nice and also free. There were chefs from the Food Network Channel giving demos of foods and that is where I got one of my favorite recipes which is grilled eggplant capponata. I got to browse their test gardens and it was a really nice day.
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Post by paquebot on Jul 17, 2019 14:07:00 GMT -5
For those who turn their noses up at hybrids, one must remember an important fact about all "heirloom" varieties. 95% are stabilized hybrids. The remaining 5% are mutations of that 95%.
As for the white core, it is common in some very large old varieties. They are generally called utility types. They are used exclusively for canning.
Martin
The truth is more important than the facts.
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Post by pepperhead212 on Jul 17, 2019 14:14:34 GMT -5
brownrexx I've never had a problem with Burpee's, either. That's where I got that favorite basil - Serrata, and a number of other seeds from through the years. And why should anyone have to give up the parentage of hybrids? I don't see it done most of the time - only in a few cases have I seen this.
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Post by brownrexx on Jul 17, 2019 17:23:20 GMT -5
pepperhead212 , Burpee also sells my favorite butternut squash called Butterbush. I like it because the squash are on the smaller side and the vines are basically a bush type although they do vine a bit. Gianna , I looked into this issue a little further on Google and it seems that Burpee does not want to sign the Safe Seed Pledge even though they do not sell GMO seeds. They also sell a small number of seeds from Semenis which is a division of Monsanto. Neither of these are good reasons for me to boycott Burpee and I will continue to buy their seeds.
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Post by Gianna on Jul 17, 2019 21:40:13 GMT -5
For those who turn their noses up at hybrids, ... I sure don't. While there are benefits to growing open pollinated, traditional varieties, the benefits of growing hybrids can't be over-looked. I appreciate both hybrid vigor, and disease resistance in some varieties. But I also like saving my own seed from OP varieties too. I think sometimes people go overboard in being too 'pure'. There are benefits to both.
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Post by Gianna on Jul 17, 2019 21:44:21 GMT -5
Gianna , I looked into this issue a little further on Google and it seems that Burpee does not want to sign the Safe Seed Pledge even though they do not sell GMO seeds. They also sell a small number of seeds from Semenis which is a division of Monsanto. Interesting you should mention that. When I was reading about Early Girl tomato in Wikipedia, I remember they mentioned something pertaining to your comment:
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Post by paquebot on Jul 20, 2019 12:48:44 GMT -5
Just picked the best-tasting tomato that I've had in almost ten months, Whippersnapper. Would never win a tasting contest but there was no other competitors.
Martin
The truth is more important than the facts.
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Post by hairymooseknuckles on Jul 20, 2019 14:01:15 GMT -5
Gianna , I looked into this issue a little further on Google and it seems that Burpee does not want to sign the Safe Seed Pledge even though they do not sell GMO seeds. They also sell a small number of seeds from Semenis which is a division of Monsanto. Interesting you should mention that. When I was reading about Early Girl tomato in Wikipedia, I remember they mentioned something pertaining to your comment: I don't want to say I'm a purist, but I don't grow many hybrids. I'm a seed saver pure and simple. I do like Sun Gold, so there are exceptions. As far as which seed companies I use, I basically only buy from 2. ....UNLES... the dollar store has a sale at the end of the season at .10 cents a pkg. My two seed companies are The sample seed shop which is where 90% of my seed comes from. I support her efforts because she has been a friend of mine for many years though I've not met her in person. I order a few things from Baker Creek. Trades count as a large portion of my seeds as well. Don't get me wrong there are many good seed companies, I just stick with those two because they generally have what I want.However; if I find something rare, I'll buy it. Take beans for example, many of my beans came from Bill Best and I've even bought off EBay occasionally. Although it's hard not to, I try not to put money into Monsanto related items, but sometimes you need a bag of soil and Miracle Grow is most of what you find in these parts. So like most things, I'm odd man out, but I don't mind being different. We all have to make our own choices.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2019 21:02:17 GMT -5
Oddly enough, Early Girl is the tomato I'm harvesting now. Brandywine is just getting ripe and Better Boy is way behind, planted later even than Brandywine.
My tomatoes are watered when it rains and fight grass for their lives. Not a thing wrong with the Early Girls I've been eating.
So far I've only had one Brandywine, and it was disappointing. I've a notion that since Brandywine, years ago, won some taste tests every seed company around is selling something they call Brandywine. The first I grew, twenty years or so ago, were delicious and productive. The plants I have this year are not going to produce much and the one tomato I ate tasted much like cardboard.
Now I am waiting for the Better Boys to show up.
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Post by paquebot on Jul 20, 2019 21:28:03 GMT -5
Ox, there is only one good-tasting Brandywine and that's Apricot Brandywine. I have grown just about every man strain and some are just a bag of seeds to me. Haven't looked to see if any company is carrying it yet but I almost ran out of seeds twice since introducing it in SSE.
Martin
The truth is more important than the facts.
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Post by paulf on Jul 20, 2019 22:08:13 GMT -5
Of the twenty-six tomato varieties with the name Brandywine listed in Tatiana's Tomatobase, I have grown quite a few. Most of those I have grown have been very tasty with few seeds and very solid. Some varieties do well in some places and not so well in others. My favorites are Sudduth's strain, Cowlick's, Red Brandywine and Black Brandywine. As a Dwarf, BrandyFred is a good one. Brandywines I have grown may not be the most productive but are way up there so far as taste is concerned making growing them worth it.
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Post by paquebot on Jul 20, 2019 23:36:14 GMT -5
Of all Brandywines that I've grown, Black was the worse. There were actually two forms and neither worth saving. One was indeed a "bag of seeds". Everyone around here grows the original one time. First fruit ripens about when snow clouds are moving in from the NW. Many grow it because the foliage is not "tomatoey". But as stated before, Apricot beat them all for taste.
Martin
The truth is more important than the facts.
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Post by brownrexx on Jul 21, 2019 7:29:51 GMT -5
I grow Sudduths Brandywine and Red Brandywine and both are terrific in my opinion. They usually produce late so are at risk of getting Late Blight and dying before giving me any tomatoes but that has only happened once about 5 years ago.
They have a sweetness that I like and are the perfect size for one slice to make a sandwich.
I have heard so much good and bad about Brandywine that I really believe that it makes a huge difference where it is grown. Not all areas and climates can grow a good Brandywine tomato. I live less than 75 miles from where this heirloom was originally developed.
I never tried the Black Brandywine but this year I am growing two Burpee hybrids, Brandy Master and Brandy Boy.
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Post by Gianna on Jul 21, 2019 8:10:51 GMT -5
I have heard so much good and bad about Brandywine that I really believe that it makes a huge difference where it is grown. Not all areas and climates can grow a good Brandywine tomato. I live less than 75 miles from where this heirloom was originally developed. I think not only Brandywine varieties (I had no clue there were so many), but many other Heirlooms as well. The only Brandywine I tried, after hearing so much good about it, was as someone above said, a wet bag of seeds. Same with Amish Paste. Well, I'm not Amish so what did I expect? But I think living in arid SoCal had more to do with it. (Love the name BrandyFred.)
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Post by Laura_in_FL on Jul 21, 2019 9:23:28 GMT -5
@oxankle2, I wouldn't be surprised if there are a lot of "Brandywine" tomato seeds being sold that are not the real deal. There is always that temptation to cash in on the name, without taking adequate steps to make sure the seeds are true. I forget where you are, @oxankle2, but I wanted to mention that Brandywine has a reputation for not performing well in the Deep South/Gulf Coast. I know I have never had much success with it! I probably first tried to grow Brandywine 10-15 years ago. Even in years when my other tomatoes were productive, I never got more than 1-2 tomatoes off Brandywine, and sometimes none. They were fantastic-tasting tomatoes, but I am not going to care for a plant for months knowing I will get, at best, 1-2 fruits the whole season. I have heard a lot of similar reports from other folks in the Deep South/Gulf Coast. Since I gave up on growing regular Brandywine, I have been trying to grow other strains and offshoots of Brandywine that are supposed to perform better in the South. But I keep getting crossed/wrong ones, with seeds from both trades and seed vendors. I am not superstitious, but I am almost beginning to think I am cursed not to successfully grow any tomato with "Brandywine" in the name! EDIT: I see lots of people have beaten me to the punch with similar comments!
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Post by octave1 on Jul 21, 2019 10:03:19 GMT -5
Early Girl is one of my staple tomatoes. I grow it every year and it does really well for me. I do not water my tomato plants, they must rely on rainfalls and on soaker hoses if it has been a month since the last rain, and this must be the reason EG tastes excellent here when picked fully ripe. I also grow other hybrids, as well as OP varieties. I cannot tell the difference between the two as far as plants' vigor and fruit production.
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Post by paquebot on Jul 21, 2019 10:16:29 GMT -5
Years ago, Mark Korney published a tomato Brix and pH chart on Garden Web. I had it ear-marked for years to provide a lot of truth and facts. The facts were much different than what people thought. It's no longer available but others are. Pink Brandywine is 5.96 on the Brix chart. Black Krim is 7.82 and Black Icicle even higher at 8.55. Even Cherokee Green is higher at 6.16. The chart I found did not list the pH. That is what will make a low Brix tomato taste sweet or v.v. I would be curious to know the Brix and pH of Apricot Brandywine as that's the sweetest that I've grown from that line.
Martin
The truth is more important than the facts.
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Post by paulf on Jul 21, 2019 16:04:19 GMT -5
I remember Mark's chart and it seems that tomato pH is relatively the same no matter the variety: it is in the 3.9 to 4.1 range; not enough difference to notice the change in flavor. His brix readings were anywhere from 5 up to 12. A huge difference in soluble sugars and carbohydrates. I like tomatoes the sweeter the better but there are some crazy people who like them tart. I think sweetness and tart are measured by sugar content not the acidity. I would like to see the chart again to see if higher pH coincides with higher sugar content or if the same sugar content and differing pH affects the sweetness. That information would change not only my perception but the text of discussions on growing tomatoes.
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Post by brownrexx on Jul 21, 2019 17:07:52 GMT -5
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