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Post by paquebot on May 29, 2020 20:49:23 GMT -5
I;m wondering if there are anyone wanting to help save what is probably the scarcest of onions. Currently there are only 3 or 4 of us known to still have them. They are the best cooking onion that I have found and the effort to grow them is well worth it. It is demanding. First is that I think that they are strictly Long Day. Second is that they can only be grown from sets. Thus from seed to seed is a 3-year process. Set production comes from planting seed in mid-June. The plants grow in the shorter days and go dormant 2 months later as sets about ¼" x 1". Those sets are planted back in early spring to become a potential 2" x 5" bulb. To get seeds for the next generation, bulbs are planted back. This is how most onions used to be grown before so many new types were developed.
I'm looking for some serious gardeners who have more than a couple years left and would like to give these a try. Window of opportunity is coming up for planting seeds. If interested, PM address and you'll get a few hundred to start the process.
Martin
The truth is more important than the facts.
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Post by spike on May 29, 2020 21:13:28 GMT -5
I am hoping to have a few years left!!
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Post by paquebot on May 29, 2020 23:30:26 GMT -5
I am hoping to have a few years left!! Spiker, I believe that you indeed are a great candidate to help keep this great variety alive. Full instructions will accompany the seeds. Martin The truth is more important than the facts.
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Post by brownrexx on May 30, 2020 7:14:49 GMT -5
I can't grow onions here due to the Alium Leaf Miner which is an invasive that appeared here a few years ago.
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Post by september on May 30, 2020 8:49:14 GMT -5
How are they as storage onions, and how many individual plants would you need to keep out for a modest amount of seed production?
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Post by paquebot on May 30, 2020 12:06:22 GMT -5
Storage is excellent. May begin sprouting in March-April. There has been a red one grown by Amish in PA but most that I have seen have been torpedo rather than bottle. That is, lacking the bulge in the middle. This one was apparently only grown by a few Amish in MN when I got them 17-18 years ago. Seed was badly crossed with maybe 10% being red or white rounds. I've rogued out the bad genes and over 99% pure again.
For seed saving, most agree on 10 plants in a block. They are self-infertile which means that they can not pollinate themselves. Wind is sufficient so there can be no other onions blooming nearby or they will cross. Many flies and tiny wasps show up to speed the process.
Set production used to be common but now few know what to do. Stuttgarter onion seed used to be common in seed racks but scarce now. That is the source of yellow sets. Red and white Ebenezer seed also not common as they are the other 2 colors of sets. Nobody wants to fool around growing their own when Dutch Valley Growers have hundreds of acres.
For sowing seeds, merely sprinkle so that they are about ¼" apart. They do not need the space of a round onion set. When they go dormant, they may be barely an inch long and not ¼" thick but every one has ability to become a big bulb. By trial and error, starting before mid-June resulted in larger sets but anything ½: or bigger tended to merely divide and bolt.
Martin
The truth is more important than the facts.
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Post by september on May 30, 2020 12:49:10 GMT -5
Martin, I'd like to give them a try if you have enough extra seeds.
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Post by paquebot on May 30, 2020 13:42:06 GMT -5
Have plenty of seeds. Not certain about percentage of germination but should be good. Just need mailing address. Spike's are already on the way.
Martin
The truth is more important than the facts.
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Post by spike on May 30, 2020 19:56:27 GMT -5
Spike's are already on the way. WOO HOO Happy dance!!
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Post by ladymarmalade on May 30, 2020 20:25:29 GMT -5
Martin, I would love to join the campaign to Save An Onion. I definitely have space to devote to them. I'll pm you my address.
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Post by paquebot on May 30, 2020 22:03:02 GMT -5
Two definittes and a maybe so far here. Two others from other places. At least one, an SSE member, is well-skilled at growing onions so I;m becoming more and more happy with the way it is going. If it were one of 50,000 tomato varieties, 50 people might come forward to save it. But who wants to mess with a stinky onion?
When planting seed in 15 more days, prepare a bed of loose soil. I have mixed sand in the top ½" to assure that the seedlings have no trouble emerging. Since June is also warm, important to keep them damp. Past two years I have planted the seeds in 7-gallon pots. Soil and old horse manure base and sprinkle seeds on top. Then cover with ½" of sand and Jiffy Mix. Yes, sounds like a lot of effort but not for most gardeners. Just automatic for me.
Martin
The truth is more important than the facts.
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Post by paquebot on May 31, 2020 11:20:46 GMT -5
Between here and several other outlets, we are done already. Kept just enough to sow back for this year's sets. All who asked here will get them.
Martin
The truth is more important than the facts.
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Post by paulf on May 31, 2020 11:47:05 GMT -5
Martin: I almost asked to join the group in this fun and important endeavor...then I remembered that I hate onions and refuse to eat them (well most of the time, except in fajitas at my local Mexican restaurant). I hope this all goes well. Saving old varieties is good thing even if it is stinky old onions.
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Post by paquebot on May 31, 2020 22:09:32 GMT -5
I am really putting all eggs in one basket. There are only enough seeds left to plant for sets this year. No reserve or backup, all out for others to grow. There are now some who will wait for sets when I have them this fall. I think that this is going to work out great.
Martin
The truth is more important than the facts.
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Post by spike on Jun 2, 2020 16:10:50 GMT -5
Spike's are already on the way. OH OH OH they are here!! I will get them planted. I am sure I will have a million questions but I am so excited!!
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Post by paquebot on Jun 2, 2020 19:16:33 GMT -5
When it comes to these cuties, I have at least 999,999 answers. Started with a blank slate as there was zero information on them. Still little more than that. I had to make all possible trial and error before getting it right. Now have the system down to where one can't go wrong without trying.
Martin
The truth is more important than the facts.
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ponyexpress
Junior Member
Posts: 86
Zone:: 6b
Favorite Vegetable:: alliums
Joined: June 2020
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Post by ponyexpress on Jun 4, 2020 10:22:30 GMT -5
Looking forward to helping with this effort! Martin, we've been in communication via email. When we start producing seeds three years from now, what should we do with them other than keeping some for ourselves?
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Post by ladymarmalade on Jun 4, 2020 17:34:50 GMT -5
My seeds arrived today! This weekend is garden or bust time, so I expect to get them in the ground and on their way.
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Post by paquebot on Jun 4, 2020 18:18:01 GMT -5
ponyexpress, what to do with the seeds is simple, save ans share. Garden forums are dwindling but they were the best outlets for about 20 years. Problem with this variety is that it is almost unique. There are torpedo onions but none are set type. They are also relatively sweet and yet a good keeper. I can't think of another onion that cooks the way it does. It just seems to melt. Never seem to grow enough of them. When I got them, there was a lot of crossed seed. Eventually the only odd one was same type and size but white. When planted back, I think that they were sweeter. I set aside the last 4 or 5 white ones and plated them for seed production. When they were just setting blossoms, they took a direct hit from a falling walnut limb. No white ones showed up last year but the genes may still be in the yellow. Martin The truth is more important than the facts.
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ponyexpress
Junior Member
Posts: 86
Zone:: 6b
Favorite Vegetable:: alliums
Joined: June 2020
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Post by ponyexpress on Jun 5, 2020 6:06:27 GMT -5
@martin, how did you get these seeds originally?
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Post by paquebot on Jun 5, 2020 9:38:09 GMT -5
The origin of the seeds are with the instructions. A friend in MN found an Amish woman who grew them. She gave him a "kit" consisting of seeds, sets, and bulbs. We were both active on Garden Web so he split the lot and sent half to me. No instructions so it was trial and error for both of us to figure how to grow them. (He quit after about 10 years.)
What we learned was that it acted exactly like any other typical set onion. If it were tried to grow from seed to bulb in one year it would not do it. It would go straight to seed. If sets were too big, same thing as a large round type. In the end, there was really nothing exotic or new about how to grow them, just had to apply it.
Martin
The truth is more important than the facts.
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Post by paquebot on Jun 5, 2020 22:44:42 GMT -5
OK. for those who have seeds, plant now. My best dates have been 6-6 and 6-10. Mine are in their pots and watered. Now starts the worrying about germination. Should be just less than a week. I will be worrying every minute!
Martin
The truth is more important than the facts.
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Post by september on Jun 6, 2020 8:10:00 GMT -5
Seeds arrived here yesterday, will plant in the next couple of days. Thank you!
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Post by ladymarmalade on Jun 7, 2020 20:05:48 GMT -5
Sowing happened today! Can't wait to start seeing them come up.
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Post by spike on Jun 8, 2020 8:53:04 GMT -5
OK. for those who have seeds, plant now. My best dates have been 6-6 and 6-10. I planted mine 6/6 like you said!! Fingers crossed!!
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ponyexpress
Junior Member
Posts: 86
Zone:: 6b
Favorite Vegetable:: alliums
Joined: June 2020
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Post by ponyexpress on Jun 9, 2020 7:40:07 GMT -5
If it were tried to grow from seed to bulb in one year it would not do it. It would go straight to seed. I got the seeds yesterday so I'll put them in pots later today. Once I get some of my own seeds going, it seems that it wouldn't be a bad idea to start some seeds at the beginning of the season just to produce fresh seeds. Anything wrong this idea? Or what about starting them indoors in January and transplanting in early April like I do for my other onions. Would this work?
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Post by paquebot on Jun 9, 2020 13:12:26 GMT -5
With most of the crossed genes rogued out, it would probably be safe to plant early for a seed-to-seed run. However, that is never been the method used on other onions of the same growth type. Also, of the red, white, and yellow set varieties, only Red Wethersfield can be started early for plants. Ebenezer and Stuttgarter may bolt or only divide. But with these bottle onions, not everything has been tried and that's what you folks are assigned to do.
I can now confirm that you all got viable seed. I set my pots up on 31 May and sowed the seeds. Left them covered and dry until 3 June. They were watered that day and the countdown began then. Five days later they began emerging. Thus you now know what to expect and when.
Martin
The truth is more important than the facts.
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ponyexpress
Junior Member
Posts: 86
Zone:: 6b
Favorite Vegetable:: alliums
Joined: June 2020
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Post by ponyexpress on Jun 10, 2020 8:11:17 GMT -5
I have stuttgarter seeds that I started in early Feb. They're currently in my garden as transplants. I have grown them before but can't recall any ever bolting from seed/transplants. It would be neat to see if the bottle onions have the same profile. The bottle onion seeds that I just got are currently in pots to grow as sets.
Is there someone that could send me some bottle onion seeds later this year that I could try to start indoors in January 2021? I'll be happy to send some $ to cover costs.
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Post by paquebot on Jun 10, 2020 13:37:45 GMT -5
As far as I know, there is one other person who has/had seed and he possibly has just planted them. One other person produced sets last year and would currently have bulbs in he ground for seed production. However, he does not have Internet. I had a hiccup in the system two years ago and thus had no bulbs to plant back last fall. That's how precarious this has been.
Stuttgarter used to be common in every seed rack but I haven't seen it in years. I've never seen any Ebenezer or Red Wethersfield. Stuttgarter's omission is probably due to lack of interest. The other two due to just being too fussy. An SSE outlet had Red Wethersfield as plants about 15 years ago. Bought some and probably half went direct to seed. Definitely not the answer.
Martin
The truth is more important than the facts.
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ponyexpress
Junior Member
Posts: 86
Zone:: 6b
Favorite Vegetable:: alliums
Joined: June 2020
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Post by ponyexpress on Jun 12, 2020 10:19:30 GMT -5
Just checked and I see a few seeds sprouting. Hooray! I moved the pot to my side porch so it gets partial shade and start acclimating to the sunlight.
I find Stuttgarter seeds to be "common" online. I buy my seeds online so I can't comment if they're available in the seed racks. I can also find Red Wethersfield online but for Ebenezer, I can only find sets.
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